Mysterious Big cats - just BIG cats?

[mingle]

Greetings all,

After browsing the web for a few hours, looking for some clips of these elusive Australian 'big cats', all I could find were several videos (mostly on YouTube) that just appear to show slightly bigger than average domestic moggies...

The Today Tonight segment on big cats was highly amusing, with the slow-motion video (obviously done to make them look a bit less like the neighbour's pet!) and ominous music...

I know from experience that farm cats can get VERY beefy. My mate's grandparents had a couple of pumped-up moggies on their place in the Upper Hunter. They were much larger than the average cat and it all stemmed from a diet of nice plump rats (that used to plague the chook shed and cattle feed-lots).

I've yet to see a single photo or video that shows anything more than an overgrown feral/domestic flea-bag...

Unless I'm looking in the wrong places???

Mike.

[Deleted]

Whoa Mingle...

Perhaps you missed the clip with music that showed the Lithgow feral cat that feral pest expert Bill Atkinson from the NSW Dept of Primary Industries stated off camera to the show's producer that the animal was 500mm at the shoulder - this statement was repeated on camera by the reporter doing the voice over. Mr Atkinson still believes this to be the case.

Or the clip with outdoorsman and fisherman Garry Blount at Lake Windamere where the Professor of Zoology Mike Archer (who has a keen interest in Thylacoleo carnifex, among other things) said you could take footage of a leopard walking through a field like that and it "wouldn't look anything different to what we have seen....This is a very hard thing to explain."

Or the Steve Temby footage from Victoria that was judged to be 'just a feral cat' by the 'Mexican' ag experts, but the footprint with the coin next to it (in the same clip) ruled out a standard-sized cat...again.

^{>I know from experience that farm cats can get VERY beefy. My mate's grandparents had a couple of pumped-up moggies on their place in the Upper Hunter. They were much larger than the average cat and it all stemmed from a diet of nice plump rats (that used to plague the chook shed and cattle feed-lots). I've yet to see a single photo or video that shows anything more than an overgrown feral/domestic flea-bag...<}

How beefy? Got any pictures for comparison? I don't doubt that feral cats can grow to extraordinary sizes - I trapped a massive ginger feral cat 10 years ago that filled the cage (of the size the RSPCA hires out, big enough for a small dog), it was a veritable demon but nowhere near the top end of the scale witnesses are talking about. I think many of the cats seen are most likely large ferals - but 'large' in the sense that they are growing far bigger (ie. German Shepherd size or larger) than currently thought ie. twice the size.

If you know of any feral farm cats that are in the size ranges being discussed in relation to the videos, then I would love to see any video or photos of them. And if your mate's grandparents are harbouring leopard-sized cats in the chook shed, I'd be a little worried! ;D

Ruby

[mingle]

Hi Ruby,

Here's an interesting article about the Lithgow footage:

www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=2755

None of the video footage in the 'Today Tonight' segment (in my opinion) showed anything other than feral cats. Look at the clip showing the black cat close to the Grey Kangaroo - that moggie is no bigger than my neighbour's cat (which is average size)!

Slow motion also does a lot to make them look bigger and more menacing - watch the same footage at normal speed and there you have your feral moggy!

I also think it's strange that they're always black. It's possible that people see them and since they look so out of place ("a black cat in the bush!") that they think 'panther'? I dunno...

Look, I'm a believer that there are strange cats/cat like creatures out there, but I'm also sceptical when it comes to wild claims, backed-up with video like this. I'm ready to be convinced, but it'll take a lot more than cheesy tabloid telly!

Here's a real black panther - those other clips don't really compare:



Right, now that's off my chest... :-)

Alas, the farm was sold quite a few years ago. I have no idea what happened to the cats - I guess they were 'passed on' to the new owners?

There was no way to safely measure them - I guess you know how 'unhappy' these moggies can get when mishandled! At the time, they were just "the farm cats" (one ginger, co-incidentally and the other black), big though they were...

It always used to amuse me that they preferred eating rats to chooks! :-)

Cheers,

Mike.

[mingle]

<bump>

(I've posted so many other replies tonight and I want to keep this one near the top of the list!)

[Deleted]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the link to the Rex Gilroy/Greg Foster message, but I am more than familiar with their, erm, work.

Again - I'm not disputing the 'overgrown feral/domestic fleabag' angle, however you seem to gloss over the fact they shouldn't be growing that big. You also sidestepped everything else I mentioned regarding other footage and expert opinion. I have a healthily sceptical attitude too, but I do put some stock in the opinion of professional outdoorsmen/hunters and those familiar with animals in their working life.

Why are they always black? Who knows, join the 'not knowing' club. There are certainly other animals that could be mistaken for a large black felid at a distance, but distinctive qualities pertaining to ears, tail and behaviour, as described by witnesses, seem to rule out other animals (foxes, wallabies etc) most of the time.

^{>Look, I'm a believer that there are strange cats/cat like creatures out there, but I'm also sceptical when it comes to wild claims, backed-up with video like this. I'm ready to be convinced, but it'll take a lot more than cheesy tabloid telly!}

Actually, you give every indication of not believing in any such thing Wild claims? I've heard much wilder stories that have had no supporting evidence at all and people here and elsewhere have been ready to believe them. And then there's the (now infamous) Radium Hill Tiger footage that is being written off as a goat - despite the fact no one can definitively say what is in the video, except, it seems, those shooting it, who appear convinced it's a large cat (a tiger even!).

Personally, I've seen at least 3-4 very compelling videos of large black and tan cats, but like all mediums they are not in themselves enough to sustain an argument - people will always take issue with the inevitable poor quality of videos (jerkiness, focus, distance etc) and air claims of hoaxes etc. I, like you, would love the ultimate proof, but I'm beginning to think your photo 'reward' has all the hallmarks of a Randi challenge - no 'proof' will ever be good enough

The forum for the airing of material (ie. current affairs shows) shouldn't really matter - video is video, slow or fast, spooky ominous music aside. There were two cats in the footage, one demonstrably larger than its pointy-eared mate. It was of sufficient interest to warrant a State Government investigation - and while the investigation yielded no definitive answer, these sightings are ongoing.

Big cat small cat, black cat, white/tan cat...it's an interesting old conundrum.

Ruby

[Deleted]

I haven't got the time to browse the web looking for big cats, I have been out on the farm again. We got some rain and now I am waiting to see if it is enough for something to sprout. I know what I saw up close and it was NOT a cat, I thought it was a panther when I saw it from a distance but up close definitely a marsupial. Had it ben a cat and not so surprising I would have shot it but I was too surprised, won't happen again if I have the gun in my hand marsupial or not it goes down.

[mingle]

Hi Ruby,

Ah, my contention is that the creatures in the vids are, indeed, just BIG felis cattus. Perhaps I'm missing the point...

Why they are big is another issue - could be anything from genetics to diet. But none of the vids I've seen (to me at least) show a panther, leopard, jaguar, puma, lion, tiger or tylacoleo. Just a big feral - that's my point (I think!?).

I wanna see a video of something other than an overgrown pet! (Don't we all!) :-)

As for my 'reward', I'm more than willing to be convinced by a decent pic/video. However, if any of those cat clips had come my way, I would've laughed them off... Like Tweety Bird says: "I think I taw a puddy tat... a BIGGG puddy-tat!"

But, if the Charleville Thylacine footage had come to me first, my wallet would now be $2K lighter! I'm convinced that THAT video does show a thylacine, even though it is jerky and not at all clear.

Anyhow, James Randi is a top bloke - any comparisons to him are warmly welcomed! :-)

Cheers,

Mike.

[mingle]

Hey Dennis,

Be nice...

If you have time to aim a rifle, you'll have time to point a camera instead!

Cheers,

Mike.

P.S. Woo-Hoo, this is my 100th post!!! PROOF that I have too much spare time!

[Deleted]

If I have the camera with me, during the two best sightings I have had a rifle no camera but I must admit I carry the camera more often than the rifle these days. No bunnies around and most of the foxes live in National Parks where you can't shoot them, you just have to wait until lambing season when they come out.

[Deleted]

Perhaps if I put it really simply - I think the cats seen are (most of the time) large ferals. Indeed, I think the videos almost always show large feral cats. I find that in itself a source of wonderment as they shouldn't be growing that big.

You wouldn't be impressed by a cat that size? I sure as hell would, especially if I ran into it while bushwalking. The videos seem to support that cats are growing to extraordinary sizes in the bush, a pretty amazing (and worrying) development.

Are there exotics around as well? Very likely, but I've just realised your photo challenge only applies to two (supposedly extinct) species - thylacine and thylacoleo, not to big cats per se, so moot point. Too bad.

Ruby

[youcantry]

I was going to ask about Charleville - but you've already mentioned it mingle, saying your pocket would be lighter.

What are others' thoughts on the Charleville animal? Is it as simple as filming a (placental) lion in a free-ranging Australian zoo? Or is it the real deal. I have already received a number of opinions on this footage, and along with mingle I count it as one of the most significant pieces of circumstantial evidence (along with the Doyle footage).

Here's a still-frame: www.wherelightmeetsdark.com/index.php?module=wiki&page=CharlevilleThylacine

And I really think I should be posting more than a single frame and give this footage the analysis time it deserves...

[mingle]

Hi Chris,

I'm 100% with you on the Charleville footage.

I'm also astounded that anyone could even think it's a lion (there were a lot of such comments on YouTube, regarding this vid). The differences are just too numerous to mention. Geez, I look more like a lion that that creature does!

The only thing it vaguely resembles is a pit/bull terrier, with it's slightly 'stiff' gait and rigid tail. But even that comparison could probably be picked apart and discarded.

As I've said quite a few times, I reckon (with 99% certainty) it's a thylacine.

Some proper analysis would be good and if you've been in contact with the current owner of the tape, do you have any better quality video?

Cheers,

Mike.

[Deleted]

Ah, my contention is that the creatures in the vids are, indeed, just BIG felis cattus. Perhaps I'm missing the point...

Yes you are.
The morphology in the videos does appear to show felis cattus..and nothing from the panthera genus. When you use the word "just" implies that you appear to misunderstand what the accepted size range is for felis cattus.
Full marks to you for your honesty in admitting that your only "research" is a few hours on youtube!!

But none of the vids I've seen (to me at least) show a panther, leopard, jaguar, puma, lion, tiger or tylacoleo. Just a big feral - that's my point (I think!?).

Sure.."we" are not arguing that they do show any form of exotic big cat.
That "just" appeared again.!!

I wanna see a video of something other than an overgrown pet!

You have...

However, if any of those cat clips had come my way, I would've laughed them off.

Fair enough.
No offense Mingle...but your "opinion" on the validity or otherwise of video sequences of any animals is not very relevent is it when compared to the opinion of scientists who have actually researched the phenomena.
We will stick to the opinions of experts in their fields that looked at the same footage as you did..and didnt just laugh.
They were intrigued.!
It sure is an odd interest we all share.
Have a good one..

[youcantry]

mbw - your avatars just keep getting better!

but I'm confused - are you, and Ruby, now saying there is no evidence for big cats other than feral moggies? Or at least no videos or photos?

[mingle]

Hi mbwmbw,

Fair enough, I'm not trying to say that my opinion is worth more, or holds more weight than anyone else's - it's just MY opinion... After all, that's what this board is for, eh? :-)

If they are, as has been stated, big old ferals, then I (JUST my opinion again!) don't find their existence nearly as fascinating or tantalising as Dennis's marsupial critter or other potential natives 'cryptids'...

Cheers,

Mike.

[molloch]

The Charleville footage is very interesting, if any piece of photography out there shows a thylacine in recent times, this is it. This doesn't mean I'm 100% convinced it is one, but I'd love to think it was.

Being scientifically minded, I need more than anecdotes to believe anything. You know my feelings on large F cattus - if we haven't been able to achieve it through a few thousand years of selective breeding there is NO chance of it happening spotaneously and wide spread in a food limited environment.

This doesn't mean I'm not willing to patiently listen to people like Wally and Dennis and take their opinions into consideration, I just can't believe without evidence.

[mingle]

Hi molloch,

What do you think the explanation for these big ferals is?

Are they just misidentified/overestimated (size-wise) or some obscure subspecies that's been around in Oz for a while?

Wouldn't genetic testing be able to show (not just that they are felis cattus) where they originated from?

And there I was saying I'm not interested in these flea-bags! :-)

Cheers,

Mike.

[youcantry]

mingle - you've seen the Engel cat, haven't you? Estimated size 170+cm (tip to tail) and DNA result = F. cattus.

[JeffJ]

Ah yes, the Charleville footage creature. Time for me to do a little opinion slinging, if I may. Whatever it is in that footage, it IS marsupial. No doubt about it in my mind. The hips clearly prove this fact. There is no way to avoid this, and if someone sees something other than a marsupial, their technical eye is shot or they need to take another closer look. It's no pit bull, placental lion cub, or anything else, except marsupial.

What type of marsupial we are looking at I am not so sure of. It was reported as a young animal, so the true structure and form of the adult may vary somewhat. I lean towards thylacine(but we all know they became extinct in the 30's-sorry, I just had to toss that in!)but something seems not quite right with that assumption. The thylacine pup in the jar that Archer(?)has doesn't look much like it, as far as I can tell the Charleville critter seems chunkier, and seems to be shambling along and behaving un-thylacine like-which I think would be sleek, fast, and more than willing to remove itself from a potenially dangerous situation long before any approaching humans would even realize it was there. It seems to be un-afraid, and appears to walk like a animal that isn't very fast-or at least isn't in any sort of hurry.

The beefier look to that animal is what sways a lot of folks into thinking they are looking at a lion cub, perhaps the most given identification by viewers of the clip. What about any thylacine cub makes it look like a lion cub? The one in the jar doesn't seem "lionish" at all to me. The way it moves, I am guessing, coupled with a "sturdy" form. A fox may be mistaken for a thylacine from time to time(mange, distance, fleeting sighting, ect), but but could anyone confuse a fox with the creature in that film?

That reasons above is why I can't say with certainty it is a thylacine. But being marsupial, there aren't many options left. It could be a young thylacoleo related animal. The longish head might be the result a being a juvenile animal, and although the longish snout is the biggest deterent for this idea, the overall appearance does help explain the lion "flavor" that folks keep seeing in the film subject. And even with what seems like a snout too long to be TC, that snout doesn't deter people from identifying it as a lion cub, for that matter. My thoughts are that it is marsupial, might well be a thylacine cub, but could turn out to be marsupial lion related.

Here is a thylacoelo reconstruction from a museum that kinda looks like an adult version of what's in that film. Thanks for the soapbox.....Jeff

[youcantry]

Soapbox appreciated - and what a thylacoleo image... not seen that one before.

Regarding the long muzzle - that put me off thylacine initially, but when I put still-frames from 1930s thylacine footage right beside the Charleville creature ... guess what? Identical proportions.

Now, I *know* that the hip structure indicates beyond doubt that this is a marsupial - but I still don't understand how. Can you please (if possible through written format) explain to me once for all how I can look at an animal's profile like that and conclude conclusively that it is a marsupial or placental? Further - does the same logic work on the thylacoleo reconstruction image you just posted? Further - could the effect in the Charleville video be due, for example, to random pixelation generated by the mpeg encoding (which is what I attribute the apparent stripes on Doyle's 1973 footage to)?

Much appreciated.

Chris.

[JeffJ]

Heya Chris Ole' Buddy!!!! I ain't trying to be difficult, really. Marsupials have a long angled hip(that's what I call it) that is unique, it's hard to explain, but it is easy to recognize. Their hip is longer and at a different slope than placentals(for the most part). Have a look at the thylacine, it could pass for a canine to the layman, but one of the things that gives the true origin away is the odd hip structure(and the long heel). Look at the hip of the thylacine, then look at the hip of a dog. The marsupial hip appears elongated. I can research the official explaination, at some point soon, that way I can answer this question scientifically, instead of saying "look at this", "compare with that" ect.

The thylacoleo model was done with the artist's take on the animal, if he(or she) got the hips dead on I can't say. Fairly close, I suspect. I think the Charleville footage isn't so poor that we see things that aren't there. It is fairly set in the middle of the frame, not tiny, and it is walking along and we get a good brief look at the subject. In the doyle footage, the animal is running and is entering and leaving differing areas of light and shadows. Just think how much easier it would be to study the film if the animal in that one was just slowly walking along in a brightly lit area. I think the stripes are due to pixelation, too, but perhaps I could be wrong about that, it's just hard to tell. Jeff

[Wally1]

I was going to keep out of this bun fight , but it is getting so far out of whack I just havve to point out a few facts.
We are talking about whether these giant cats are actually overgrown feral cattus ar something else.
I have been in contact wiith these felines for over 20 years and for 8 years of that I lived in very close contact with a female (cat),
and she considered my home her home.
For stories about Blackie refer to my web site.
In the early 90s I shot a very large cat that was killing my chooks. I although it exceeded to length and other proportions of any feral around it was actually a juvenile as shown by decidious teeth and diminuitive testicles.
The mother stayed around with a surviving kit which grew into Blackie. The skeliton of this specimen was removed from my house by "persons unknown".
During 2001 Kev the Kamelman trapped 2 juvenile bigcats whille trapping for foxes which he claimed were killing off his waxbill finches.
There were apparently 2 female cats hanging around with 2 kittens each.
It appears that these were daughters of Blackie and had removed blackie from the scene.

[Deleted]

May 1, 2008 21:58:23 GMT 10 molloch said:

NO chance of it happening spotaneously and wide spread in a food limited environment.

I'd say Australia is anything BUT a food limited environment.

Ruby

[Deleted]

May 1, 2008 19:57:02 GMT 10 youcantry said:

but I'm confused - are you, and Ruby, now saying there is no evidence for big cats other than feral moggies? Or at least no videos or photos?

I should have been a little clearer - primarily I was talking about the videos in question, but I do believe F. cattus can account for many of the sightings. There seems to be strong anecdotal evidence of other kinds of large cats ie. pumas (Cordering, Grampians etc) possibly present in our wilderness areas.

We certainly have a ready-made environment for a large felid species - abundant food and plenty of places to live and breed undetected. Cats have been shown to be highly adaptable creatures and are able to thrive in seemingly inhospitable places ie. deserts, with no problem at all.

Ruby

[Wally1]

Damn.
Physical examinatiom proved that thyese were juveniles and the mothers came looking for them . They raised such a storm that I loaded the shotgun in case one tried to come in the window.
You will find references to these cats in my websight under SA wildcats 1&2. You will note the length of the legs and size of the feet compared to normal cattus
The feet are fully twice the size of normal cats annd the rear foot is doglike.
A good example is the pic of the Bob Mac cat.
It is clearly the F cattuus head but the legs are far longer than any normal F cattus. Dennis made reference to thhis in a cat he saw.
During the skinning of my Para specimens I noted that the chest was far bigger than the biggest feral cats that I skun.
Although these big cats can keep out of sight and disappear in a twinkle if they are seen, they are very partial to human company.
This leads me to believe that they originated from African Wildcat
F Lybica which I have read have ways that are so close to our local critters it iis not just chance
It is in no way like the European wildcat F Sylvestis which is claimed to be untamable and avoids human habitation.
This leads me to believe that these cats were originaly brought by Egyptian settlers 2500----4000 years ago, as were the Big Desert dogs found in NW Victoria.
In the time frame and considering the plethoriia of different size and shapes of canines evolved in lesser time, it is plenty of time for the original feline imports to evolve into the current bigcats.
They have filled the missing large predator niche left by the removal of thylacine and thylacoleo which retreated with the advancement of aridifaication and development of savannah country. This in turn assisted with the evolvment of the large kangaroos fair game for the bigcats.
For those searching for information re the Australian Bigcat
Stop loking there is nothing bar for my attempts to document what i have learned by personel experience.
You will find the old tape Alien Big Cats has a lot of information from involved peopls, this is the Australian ABS not the Pommey version,
The Austalian big cat has evolved from the original stock and is now a different animal to F Cattus domesticus and can no lonmger be considered a feral
Lions and tigere originated from a common parent, can you call a lion a tiger.
I have had my say and will say no more,
Wally

[molloch]

May 2, 2008 8:30:48 GMT 10 @rubylang said:

May 1, 2008 21:58:23 GMT 10 molloch said:

NO chance of it happening spotaneously and wide spread in a food limited environment.

I'd say Australia is anything BUT a food limited environment.

Ruby

What has a greater excess of food?

A cat kept in domestic situation being fed out of a bowl ad hoc, or a feral cat roaming around the bush?

What has a greater selection pressure?

Cats being manually selected for breeding based on certain traits (just like dogs are). Or a feral cat roaming around the bush?

Sorry, but you are talking about something that goes against evolution here. The animal with the excess of food and the greater selection pressure is NOT the one that responds by getting larger???

Look at dingoes/feral/aboriginal camp dogs. these dogs are left to their own devices and what do they breed towards? Not Great Danes: medium sized, tan or black, 1-20kg unremarkable dogs.

What is your hypothesis for what is making these domestic cats grow larger in the wild?

Mingle:

Yes, I think they are just overestimated large domestic cats (large, yes but not Kurt sized) or just hoaxes. Also i think black swamp wallabies have a lot to answer for too. I know these are regularly mistaken for big cats, even by people who should know better, and I have seen the curled up with their tail wrapped around very cat like and then spring up and dissapear into the bush - very feline looking.

[Deleted]

What has a greater excess of food?

I have seen the result of feral cat predation, you occasionally find cat homes in hollow logs or abandoned wombat burrows and similar shelter and the amount of marsupial and bird bones that surround these habitats is unbelievable. Often some bones are remarkably large (from sheep or 'roos) indicating that the animals are either well developed taking large prey or are scavenging but are not short of food.

[molloch]

Dennis, cats eat an unbelievable amount of food, and I have seen wild cat dens with massive amounts of bones etc. They will also scavange to some extent.

However my point remains that in terms of energy in per energy out, a domestic cat in a flat with a little old lady keeping it's bowl topped up is way ahead of the game.

[Deleted]

Lots of food..no monsters...ergo......it aint the food.
Natural selection..no monsters..it aint natural selection.
So we move on.
Could be cross species...indonesian jungle cats/fcattus.
Or...
Could be genes expressing some form of gigantism for whatever reason.
Dr Steve Wroe told me he believes this is possible.
Wally and I are sitting on a photo of a freshly skinned cat from SA that is body alone apprx 1250mm long.
It has scale since it is on the side of the ute with other skins next to it.
I dont care if anyone believes it or not.. ;D
I have asked Wally not to release it since we are going to use it in our book this year and wanted to keep a few pearls .
Bill Atkinson/Taronga Zoo said the Lithgow footage was a large feral.
Atkinson from the Ag dept claims this animal stood at 500mm at the shoulder when he measured the trees from the position of the camera person and then went and measured the tree height.
I dont know the reasons why they are growing large.
Secondary evidence seems to imply they are.
Obviously...we need a body on the table to settle the question.....
To Chris..re the Avatar...they are funny arnt they.?
Yes..we believe their appears to be something outside any possible range of fcattus size.
The secondary evidence like cattle attacks from Vic filmed by the Victorian Govt and shown on one of the tv shows supports this.
If the trained dept staff filmed it..and believed it was not a dog attack/nutter with a razor..but some form of felid...then..once again...its pretty good secondary evidence.
Expert analysis of secondary evidence..and their interesting conclusions is always more important,scientifically, than mere opinion/pathological scientism..and thats directed at myself as much as anyone else.
God knows I have been totally gutted several times when an expert has checked something we had.
One of the worst was a wombat killed by a "big cat".
Large cannine marks in the head(around 40mm gap...damn..too large)cat sightings on the property...good witnesses.
Long story short..the witnesses threatened us..they demanded the wombat back for a tv deal...they had lied and told us they never left the property....reality was..they left their land...a driveway ran through their property and their neighbour had run into a wombat and they then shot it with 2 slugs in the head...
Gee...wasnt the rural lands protection board vet impressed with us when he pulled 2 slugs from its head...
Truly cringe inducing......
Back to the chase...
Combine the hundreds of witnesses that have claimed to have seen monsterous felid like forms(some by govt staff)+the large spoor id by real experts as felid+the large scats as felid+the rapid/large kill sites that appear(which require a large stomach) combined= something felid,or felid like is out there.
What it is/they are is the million $$ question.

[Wally1]

I have repeatedly stated that these outsize catts are something different to F cattus and should have their own scientific name such as F Cattuus Giganticus or something similar.
I consider that most of you people are out of whack concerning the size these cats grow to.
A lactating black female that had been poisoned from eating 1080 rabbitts was found near Mansfield Vic.
It was in the vicinity of Stringy Bark Creek of Ned Kelly fame.
My friend the hound man of the Strathbogie Ranges was in volved with the retrieval of the body. A lady present souveniered
a toe and a couple of claws.
These were photocopied and I have a copy stashed away somewhere. I will dig it out.
The length of the cat was a tad under 9 feet Prior to the cat being poisoned dogs disappeared from Mansfield, it had a preference for bullterriers and labradors, sad about the labs.
When the cat went the dog killing stopped.
This cat was taken by Govt representitives and there were denials from official sources that it ever existed.

In much the same time frame a big cat was shot by police in a town N from Melbourne. I dont knoow where but forestry workers were involved so my guess it was Broadford.
It was eating a dog in a back yard, and I was told that it took a number of men to load it into the back of a Holden ute.
It was said that it filled the tray.
Again my friend the hound man related this news and I trust his word.
Again this cat disappeared without trace.
You must realise that we are not dealing wiith a critter just a bit bigger than a big feral, it can grow to massive leopard puma sized animals which have killed many horses and cows, The sheep kill amounted to thousands 10 years ago so God knows how many more have been killed.
Tne Black Terror cat that I wrote about in my web carried large wether sheep over 4 strong fences to the edge of the bush where it ate most of the sheep and finished it off later.
It also carried the forequarters of a small cow out from a shearing shed where it had been placed as a smorgasbord for the dogs.
This was carried over 4 or 5 fences and a foot was found half a kilometer away.
I consider a rethink of the whole situation is in order and looked on with a bit of realism.
Wally