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Post by Ravi on Jun 26, 2008 0:37:42 GMT 10
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2008 8:24:09 GMT 10
Nat Geo did a good program on the Fossa some time ago and of all the animals in the world it is the one whose behaviour and activity most resembles Tc. The main differences are that it is not a marsupial, I think it actually belongs to the mongoose family, and it is only about one third the size of our common critter. The ability of the Fossa to climb trees and its hunting methods make it very like our so called "bush panthers" except that it is doubtful that a Fossa could actually bring down and eat a horse or cow, something the local predator does regularly.
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Post by youcantry on Jun 26, 2008 10:51:23 GMT 10
Sensational pictures. The first one comes from an excellent website: www.mongabay.com - I highly recommend it for breaking environmental news. Cheers, Chris. |
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Post by youcantry on Jun 26, 2008 12:01:32 GMT 10
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Post by wally1 on Jun 26, 2008 12:07:25 GMT 10
I have had this critter under "observation" for quite a long time.
It is locally accredited with supernatural powers like people fainting at the sight of it and killing chickens wiith its breath.
It is used as a bogeyman to keep children under control. "Be good ot the fossa will get you".
It has been tamed and used for hunting by local natives.
An interessting animal.
Wally
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Post by Ravi on Jun 27, 2008 19:38:27 GMT 10
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Thylacoleo Gal
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Thylacoleo Gal
The Singularity is near.
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Post by Thylacoleo Gal on Jun 27, 2008 21:15:21 GMT 10
Yikes! Sort of ... can't quite place it? ;D  |
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Post by youcantry on Jul 7, 2008 23:29:20 GMT 10
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Post by wally1 on Jul 8, 2008 16:05:05 GMT 10
Forget about the fossa, more interesting things are afoot.
Madagasca has a population of F Lybica. Also a lion sized feline predator.
Is thiis another giant cat evolved from F Lybica over time of perhaps 4000 years since time of colonisation of Madagasca by people from Indonesia.
Time is up so must vacate, more when I get back on air again with my own PC.
Wally
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Post by Wally1 on Jul 11, 2008 15:46:42 GMT 10
PC quietly laid down and died, hope I can save hard drive.
Got lazy with back ups. If HD gone so is a years work.
***xxx### Oh well.
Wally
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Post by Wally1 on Jul 11, 2008 15:50:05 GMT 10
PC quietly laid down and died, hope I can save hard drive.
Got lazy with back ups. If HD gone so is a years work.
***xxx### Oh well.
Wally
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2008 12:49:13 GMT 10
Keep your chin up Wal maybe Santa will help if you are a good boy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2008 20:10:28 GMT 10
PC quietly laid down and died, hope I can save hard drive. Got lazy with back ups. If HD gone so is a years work. ***xxx### Oh well. Wally Don't turf the HD, Wal - you can recover data from them even when they are cactus. |
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Post by johannes on Jul 19, 2008 0:26:09 GMT 10
The feliformia - or the cat superfamily, for those who prefer Linnean terms to cladistics - contains eleven clades, or families: Nimravidae - extinct, sabre toothed predators. Stenoplesictidae - extinct. Generalized, civet-like omnivores Percrocutidae - extinct. Heavy, bonecrushing, hyaena-like things Nandiniidae - the African palm Civet. Looks pretty much like a standard genet or civet, but genetically different. Prionodontidae - Linsangs Barbourofelidae - extinct. Like a sabre toothed cat, but larger and uglier. Once thought to be nimravids, but nowadays considered a sister group to cats. Felidae - true cats Viverridae - Civets Hyaenidae - Hyaenas Herpestidae - Mongooses Eupleridae - The carnivores of Madagascar, including the malagasy "mongooses" and "civets"; the Falanouc and the Fossa There also was a sub-fossil, recently extinct giant Fossa, named the Cave Fossa; *Cryptoprocta spelea*; in analogy to the Cave Bears, Lions and Hyaenas of Ice Age Europe. It was 20% larger than the extant species and weighed around 16kg, probably the size limit for a warm-blooded predator on an island the size of Madagascar. It probably hunted the giant lemurs of prehistoric Madagascar, like *Hadropithecus*, known as the Thanact to renaissance scholars like Thevet or Pare. The giant Fossa became extinct when Austronesians settled Madagascar in medieval times and destroyed Madagascars megafauna, either by hunting or by habitat destruction. |
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Post by Wally1 on Jul 19, 2008 9:56:26 GMT 10
With a name of Johannes I take it you are from S Africa or nearby.
All this Information is interesting but of little use concerning thge present fauna.
What is interesting me is the fact that F Lybica is extant on the island, a proven fact , but we have reports of a lion sized predator, and bush pigs.
Now what sort of pig do they refer to as a bush pig, what was its origins.?
A pig of size would be too big for a fossa to tackle and would leave a niche for a larger predator.
Has any specimens of these large cats been obtained and if so what is their Genus?
If as I suspect they are F catus then we have a direct parallel with our Australian Bigcat.
OK Johannes , go gettum boy we are waiting for your reply.
Wally
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Post by wally1 on Jul 19, 2008 10:58:41 GMT 10
I have sweet talked the lady on the counter to give me another half hour on the computer.
I have been searching Madagaskar for contacts and have located a lady with a doctorate and her address.
I will contact her and see if she is interested in or has information re the Madagaskar mighty cat
I admit that I am rather excited re the prospects of finding a parallel to our own bigcat.
I will also be able to establish the origin of the wild pigs in Madagaskar.
I am on the way to getting a ner Comp.
It is a rebuilt subsadised machine for worthy recipicants, about 3 weeks.
It is a Pentium 4 so up with current PCs of class with extended storage.
Cheers all Wally
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Post by johannes on Jul 19, 2008 22:47:39 GMT 10
There are two species of *Potamochoerus*, the Bushpig (written as one word), *Potamochoerus larvatus*, in east Africa, and the Bush Pig (two words) in the west. It is not entirely clear if these are really two distinct species, because they interbreed on occassion. They are more hairy and colourful than the warthog, and also more omnivorous. Occasionally they kill and eat newborn lambs. The wild pigs on Madagascar are, as you would expect for geographical reasons, more similar to the eastern species (or subspecies). *Potamochoerus*, as its name, wich translates into river hog, suggests, is somewhat semi-aquatic and swims quite well, but the idea that they actually swam across the open sea to Madagascar seems to be too far fetched. I think they were introduced by humans. Austronesians - or at least those of them that have not adopted Islam - are of course very fond of pigs. As for the large predator, I think the size of a warm-blooded predator is limited not by the size of the prey - there were giant ratites and lemurs in Madagascar, and, as you have mentioned, there are pigs now - but by the size of the island (see here: www.pnas.org/content/98/25/14518/T1.expansion for the correlation of landmass and body size). Those Indonesian Islands that have Tigers and Leopards now were connected to the Asian landmass until quite recently, so the big cats had not yet enough time to dwarf. Madagascar, however, is an old island. I think this leaves three alternatives for the Malagasy big "cat": 1. If it is really a lion sized cat, it is a recent arrival, introduced by humans, that had not yet time to dwarf. Perhaps the elite of the old Meriana kingdom kept lions or leopards for reasons of prestige, like medieval European aristocrats did. The pseudo-Prussian or -Russian Merina state, church and army collapsed in the late 19th century, shortly before the French conquest. Perhaps the big cats went feral during the process. 2. It is lion sized, and it is an old native of Madagascar. In this case it would probably not be warm-blooded, for Madagascar is not large enough to support a homoeothermic predator of this size. In this case, it will probably be a ziphodont croc. There had been crocs convergent on hyaenas (see here: www.palaeos.com/Vertebrates/Units/290Crocs/290.300.html#Notosuchidae and scroll down to *Libycosuchus*) or triconodonts (see here: scienceblogs.com/laelaps/2008/04/heterodont_archosaurs.php and scroll down for *Mawalisuchus*), so a land-croc convergent on cats is not inpossible. Of course, the resulting animal would still be scaly, and would look more like something from the Permian, rather than a proper cat, but it might be cat-like enough to be confused with a cat when it is dark, and the person who watches it is very afraid. On the other hand, "lion" might be just a metaphor for "dangerous" or "predatory". Note that some cryptids from Africa are called "Water Lions", even when they are decribed as scaly, semi-aquatic creatures. 3. The size had been exaggerated by darkness or fear, and it is really more like a Puma or Clouded Leopard in size. In this case, it would probably be either a late surviving *Cryptoprocta spelea*, or simply a large individual of the recent Fossa. The Clouded Leopard, wich seems to be the closest ecological equivalent of the Fossa among the cats, weighs 17 kg and is well able to tackle a pig - in fact, pigs form the largest part of its diet. My late grandfather kept working terriers, and they were well able to tackle a pig, even if they weighed only around 15 kg. |
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Post by youcantry on Jul 20, 2008 23:46:43 GMT 10
Very interesting. I believe Moeller's book on the thylacine concludes the clouded leopard is the closest physiological match to Tassie tigers. Matches the fossa too, eh? Now I wonder why Thylacoleo Gal and Ravi were thinking this fossa thing reminded them of something familiar...  |
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Post by johannes on Jul 22, 2008 2:27:26 GMT 10
I have browsed my Heuvelmans books for Malagasy cryptids, but found nothing particulary feline. The only terrestrial mammalian predator mentioned is something called a habeby or fotsiaondre. It is described as being about the size of a sheep, having a cloven hoof, a long muzzle, long furry ears and large staring eyes. Sounds like a perfect description of a mesonychian. The problem is that mesonychians fossils are only known from Laurasia, not even mainland Africa, leave alone Madagascar. Of course, they were closely related to hippos and whales, and probably could swim pretty well. That is the frustrating thing about Madagascar: We have an old Gondanan island, isolated from the rest of the world since, lets say, the late Cretaceous, but many the gondwanan natives, like xenarthans and monotremes are lacking. Ratites were there, of course, and Afrotheres are there, too, but only tenrecs, there are no aardvarks (the bibymalagasy had evolved the typical traits of an anteater by convergence, but while it is an eutherian, it isn`t clear if it is a proper placental, leave alone an afrothere), no hyraxes, no proboscidans, no golden moles. Instead we have carnivorans that really shouldn´t be there. Very strange  , and very sad that so many of those strange creatures survived well into historic times, only to be destroyed by humans a few centuries, or perhaps even decades, before western science could learn about them, and before a conservation effort by a modern-style goverment might have saved at least some of them  . |
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Post by Wally1 on Jul 22, 2008 14:44:43 GMT 10
Many thanks friend for the interesting information.
Luke Dollar has recorded and trapped F Lybica in his trapping programs.
What my contention is that the F cattus as recorded by Dollar coulld have been in Madagascar since archaic times, the same as F Cattus and I suspect F Lybica could have possibly been introduced to Australia during the Egyptian colonisation of Aust in archaic times.
No one can deny the existance of F cattus giganticus Australus
(How about that eh) oh I forgot Daviessii.
and from my personel observations of this critter it parallels the habits of what I have read about F Lybica.
Cheers All Wally
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Post by youcantry on Jul 23, 2008 10:44:44 GMT 10
Thanks Johannes for the details. Many families there that I am completely unfamiliar with. You mentioned Madagascar does not have golden moles. Are there any species of mole at all?
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Post by johannes on Jul 24, 2008 1:22:08 GMT 10
There are no moles - and in fact no lipothyphlans at all - in Madagascar (of course, those scientists that don't like those new fangled clades based on molecular biology, like afrotheres, think The insectivorous mammalian niches occupied by lipotyphlans in NA and Eurasia, and by marsupials in Australia (small dasyurids) and SA (small didelphids, caenolestids and, intriguingly, microbiotheres), are filled by tenrecs in madagascar. There are tenrecs convergent on hedgehogs, tenrecs convergent on shrews and tenrecs convergent on moles - the Rice Tenrecs (*Oryzorictes*). In mainland Africa, the insectivorous mammalian guild includes both lipotyphlans (shrews, hedgehogs) and afrotheres closely related to tenrecs (golden moles, elephant shrews). Of course, those scientists that don't like those new fangled clades based on molecular biology, like afrotheres, think that tenrecs actually are lipotyphlans  . |
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Post by johannes on Jul 24, 2008 1:29:44 GMT 10
Oops, that sentence about afrotheres, lipothyphlans and molecular biology accidently appeared twice in my post. Sorry if I confused anyone.
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, and very sad that so many of those strange creatures survived well into historic times, only to be destroyed by humans a few centuries, or perhaps even decades, before western science could learn about them, and before a conservation effort by a modern-style goverment might have saved at least some of them 
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