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Post by tygeresque on Apr 16, 2015 21:11:36 GMT 10
the poor wallaby was still a bit warm when I found it
there was no blood on the ground
there was some congealed blood in the body
no gullet or windpipe was visible, just a big black hole looking into the body cavity
diameter of neck approx 14/15 cm
no other wounds on the body
neat slicing along the neck edge
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Post by Bob on Apr 16, 2015 22:01:49 GMT 10
Can you tell us where you found it.
State? Nearest town?
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Post by tygeresque on Apr 16, 2015 23:20:29 GMT 10
Victoria
sth Gippsland
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 23:46:17 GMT 10
Nice pics and an interesting case but it can't be definitely attributed to one predator or another. I've received reports of decapitations associated with sightings of big cats, and with thylacines (see Murray McAllister's website) I've also filmed with my own camera (which of course I purchased from wildlifemonitoring.com) a fox dragging a wallaby carcase away from the camera; the carcase was subsequently found decapitated. So if you have a decapitated wallaby you have 3 suspects; big cat, thylacine or fox. Oh and eagle.  |
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Post by tygeresque on Apr 17, 2015 0:08:29 GMT 10
never seen a big cat in the area but seen huge ferals over 4 feet long in the body
foxes have left the area
roos are getting about in mobs of 80 or more instead of the usual 12 - 14
and there are plenty of footprints of 4 legged beasties on the sandy tracks but they are not canine
also these footprints are NOT tri-lobed either
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Post by dennisw on Apr 17, 2015 10:00:05 GMT 10
Human collecting a trophy? Was there any sign of human activity or were heart and lungs removed some predators like blood and so eat those organs which are the richest source.
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Post by saggitarius on Apr 17, 2015 10:32:30 GMT 10
Good find tygeresque. Headless eastern grey roos and wallabies have been found around the Gippsland Lakes for years. I have no obvious explanation but many believe it to be an indication of a thylacine kill.
I heard a few years back of a guy who shot a kangaroo while out hunting and when coming back 30 minutes later the head had been removed by something. He was in dense scrub so it eliminates the crayfisherman getting bait theory I saw a while back, especially as it was miles from any crayfish area.
I would also like to discount foxes because in my experience with sheep kills, they enter the carcass from the other end, or burrow straight in under the rib cage to get the liver etc. Scratch out eagles too because they feed of carcasses, not steal the head.
That leave dogs (possible), big cats (ditto) and thylacines (ditto)
I have had two to three reports over the years of motorists seeing what they believe to be thylacines feeding on kangaroo roadkill. In all instances the roo was fresh dead and the animal was feeding/biting/licking or whatever at the head end.
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Post by mingle on Apr 17, 2015 11:47:19 GMT 10
Hard to be sure, but looks like a blade of some sort was used - no signs of licking or chewing around the wound.
Looks too clean to be anything other than (warped) human activity - headshot, then remove the evidence?
Mike.
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Post by tygeresque on Apr 17, 2015 15:00:08 GMT 10
the wallaby wasn't shot, think I would have heard the shot as I was 200mtrs away.......body was on the side of the road and no blood on the ground
no dead wallabies at 12pm when I drove past but it was there at 4pm on a coast road ...so there is quite a bit of traffic about
get a lot of headless roos and wallabies in the bush in the same area but I have never photographed them
how long would a body have to be deceased before the blood stops flowing
there is a family of a 4 legged beastie in the area and they leave footprints of various sizes
the largest print is 14 cm long and 12 cm wide.....another is 9 cm long and wide...
as these prints have a single plantar pad some experts reckon they are not thyla as thylas are supposed to have a TRI_LOBE plantar pad
my beasties have nice big claw marks and a single plantar pad and a typical thyla gait as well
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Post by Bob on Apr 17, 2015 21:44:41 GMT 10
I admire your dedication and documentation!
However, I concur with "Mingle" that the edge of the wound is SO NEAT that it strongly suggests a blade was used...not teeth.
Any predator (I am sure) would leave a more jagged or "chewed" edge while removing the head.
Just my opinion.
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Post by mingle on Apr 18, 2015 17:24:34 GMT 10
Another thing I've just noticed (in the 2nd photo from top) is the scraping on the upper wrist/forearms.
This looks consistent with an injury caused by the animal falling forward while moving at speed - another clue that it was slotted while on the run?
Mike.
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Post by dennisw on Apr 18, 2015 23:29:27 GMT 10
I have seen predation that included flesh removed from bone as neatly as if it had been sliced, in fact some have expressed the same opinion that it must have been a blade one comment was "someone used a boning knife". The difficulty is that we have had a predator with teeth capable of cutting flesh in this manner but that animal is claimed to be extinct.
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Post by saggitarius on Apr 19, 2015 21:25:51 GMT 10
I concur that the wound is very neat but I have seen the same on a sheep and a calf. Both were attacked by dogs (town varieties which had strayed out too far into the country and finally were shot). While one or two dogs had gone for the vent area of the ewe, another had gnawed at the neck, repeatedly biting up and down at the same spot. It was shot as it chewed. The cut was as neat as if it had been done by a knife.
With the calf it was attacked by a pack of dogs and the rib case looked as if it had been trimmed by a butcher - not a piece of meat left. I identified it as a dog pack kill from surrounding prints and sure enough next night the farmer sat up and shot two of four dogs intent on taking another day old calf.
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Post by dennisw on Apr 20, 2015 9:58:14 GMT 10
Dogs usually tear and gnaw leaving quite ragged wounds canine dentition is not really conducive to clean cuts, as dogs prefer to hunt in packs they often attack numerous animals and leave multiple bite marks.
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Post by William on Apr 20, 2015 19:12:44 GMT 10
Hi tygeresque, that's very interesting. Have you checked the wounds for hairs or swabbed for DNA?
Also, you mention a thylacine gait, what makes you so sure that its a thylacine gait?
Cheers
William
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Post by Billy the kid on Apr 20, 2015 20:05:14 GMT 10
So Mr Guru, What makes you so sure it isn`t? You put yourself up as a self proclaimed Guru, Is it true that you have been proposing that Tracker Scouts faked prints are the holy grail of Thylacine prints and that we should only take your word on EVERYTHING thylacine when obviously you seriously overlooked this major discrepancy in your research before guru self proclamation? His own words are still online to be read where he admits he faked the legendary front print that we must all accept as the only true Thylacine print that is in existence......maybe you are an apprentice Guru still?
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Post by tygeresque on Apr 20, 2015 20:15:08 GMT 10
William......anything necessary has been done
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Post by molloch on Apr 21, 2015 9:54:49 GMT 10
Dogs and foxes are certainly capable of making a "clean" cut like this. I suspect the wallaby was hit in the head and probably had some skull damage. This would be good enticement for a predator to focus on that area, and skulls are quite easy to crush. I have seen similar things with lambs predated by foxes. The cavity down the neck is likely caused by the predator pushing it's muzzle down to get at exposed flesh.
Thylacoleo, which Dennis is alluding to, despite being extinct for a long time, is less likely to be able to make this kind of damage than a dog or a fox. Thylacoleo teeth are highly specialised, but not for biting through a whole carcass like that.
I can't see any reason why this would be more likely to be a Thylacine than a fox or a dog?
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Post by saggitarius on Apr 23, 2015 10:34:22 GMT 10
I have another thought. In my younger days I was hunting when one of our party shot a wallaby with a .303 with a dum-dum bullet. The bullet missed the head, which was where he aimed, and struck the animal at the base of the skull. It blew the head clean off with a result almost as neat as in tygeresque's photos.
For the younger generation the dum-dum was made by cutting the tip off the jacketed ex-military ammunition to expose the lead core. The idea was to cause rapid expansion just like a modern hollow-point projectile. In the case of the .303 it more than trebled the wound diameter from about 7.7mm to 25mm. When that stuck the spinal cord the head just blew away.
Of course, the head was still near to the body which it does not appear to be in tygeresque's incident.
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Post by dennisw on Apr 23, 2015 16:38:56 GMT 10
Had the head been blown off as you describe it would very likely be taken away by scavengers, I have seen portions of slaughtered animals stolen by foxes, feral cats and birds. It is sometimes surprising the size of things that animals and birds can carry.
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