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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 11:36:25 GMT 10
I had a little time to spare yesterday in the city so I went to the SA Museum.
They have a display concerning extinct giant fauna, so I paid attention to the Thylacoleo skeleton and description.
Odd that near the skeleton the weight of a living Thylacoleo is given as "100-130kg", while on the touch-display it is given as "80-110 kg".
Really the skeleton is only about the size of a sheep, so, to me, a weight of about 80kg seemed more realistic.
I also found it interesting that the general posture resembled a possum and indeed, the text suggested that it in fact would have resembled a giant, carnivorous possum.
If Thylacoleo survived into recent times, it is difficult for me to imagine that it could be mistaken for a large cat. (A possum does not closely resemble a house cat.) However, the skull is very rounded and it is likely the head would have been at least more cat-like than dog-like, even though the rest of the animal more closely resembled a possum.
Just my musings.
The SA Museum also has a small room dedicated to extinct species, so I spent some time there. Fascinating, but depressing.
The Fleay video of the thylacine is playing on a continuous loop, as is a short film of the last specimen of the Toolache Wallaby.
Coincidentally, the Toolache wallaby was only ever found in a small area of SA quite close to my hometown, but it was gone before I was born.
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Post by youcantry on Jun 11, 2014 14:08:15 GMT 10
I wonder how many times those thylacine clips have been played, ever?  Funny - I was just reading about the toolache wallaby recently. The description of its behaviour does not lend it to resisting introduced predators unfortunately. I read there were some sightings reports in the 1970s. What are people's thoughts on this species still surviving? For example, there have been numerous other wallaby species presumed extinct. I think wallabies are more likely to be rediscovered by virtue of the fact that if they exist, the vast majority of the population wouldn't think anything of seeing them - it's normal to see wallabies, and they wouldn't recognise a presumed extinct species that is basically similar to something else that is quite common. I think when we discuss the thylacine persisting, and when we use the parma wallaby, or bridled nailtail wallaby, or Victoria's subspecies of brushtailed wallaby as examples of "look! It lasted decades without detection!", that is not a fair comparison. In all likelihood these missing wallabies were sighted but not recognised as missing, but also not identified as significant because it is "normal" to see kangaroos and wallabies. The thylacine is different - it is not similar to anything else, so seeing one would definitely stand out as being unusual. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2014 16:37:02 GMT 10
I wonder how many times those thylacine clips have been played, ever? Funny - I was just reading about the toolache wallaby recently. The description of its behaviour does not lend it to resisting introduced predators unfortunately. I read there were some sightings reports in the 1970s. What are people's thoughts on this species still surviving? For example, there have been numerous other wallaby species presumed extinct. I think wallabies are more likely to be rediscovered by virtue of the fact that if they exist, the vast majority of the population wouldn't think anything of seeing them - it's normal to see wallabies, and they wouldn't recognise a presumed extinct species that is basically similar to something else that is quite common. I think when we discuss the thylacine persisting, and when we use the parma wallaby, or bridled nailtail wallaby, or Victoria's subspecies of brushtailed wallaby as examples of "look! It lasted decades without detection!", that is not a fair comparison. In all likelihood these missing wallabies were sighted but not recognised as missing, but also not identified as significant because it is "normal" to see kangaroos and wallabies. The thylacine is different - it is not similar to anything else, so seeing one would definitely stand out as being unusual. That's why I give great credence to reports of the thylacine in Tasmania (and not so much on the mainland) because on Tasmania there are no dingos and (probably) no foxes to confuse observers. Really, it could only be a wild dog or a thylacine. Yes, I remember the alleged sightings of the Toolache in the 1970's. In fact, I raised a young wallaby in 1969 (the mother was killed on the road) and one neighbour declared it to be a Toolache (unfortunately not!). The Toolache was different to most other wallabies in a few respects; very short front legs, bands across the rump and stripes on the face. Of course, at a distance these might not be visible to an observer, but close-up they would stand out. |
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Post by youcantry on Jun 13, 2014 12:36:01 GMT 10
Yes, I remember the alleged sightings of the Toolache in the 1970's. Hi Tom, I know almost nothing about the toolache wallaby. Can you tell me - what are the chances, do you think, that the species still survives? What would it take? I read that they wouldn't flee until absolutely the last moment - this seems like behaviour that does not lend itself well to cats and foxes. Do you think they were definitely doomed by cats and foxes? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2014 16:35:20 GMT 10
Hi Tom, I know almost nothing about the toolache wallaby. Can you tell me - what are the chances, do you think, that the species still survives? What would it take? I read that they wouldn't flee until absolutely the last moment - this seems like behaviour that does not lend itself well to cats and foxes. Do you think they were definitely doomed by cats and foxes? Chris, Although I like to entertain remote possibilities, in this case I think the chance is absolutely zilch/zip/nil of them surviving. Their habitat is now all grazed or farmed. What would it take? Extraction of DNA from a skin and cloning, I fear. I doubt cats played any part in their extinction. Mostly hunting, land clearance and foxes. Sadly, the last few to live as a group were killed by a group of hunters trying to capture them alive for a breeding program organised by Prof. Woods Jones of Uni of Adelaide. They simply ran the animals until they died of exhaustion. So stupid! (They would have had better luck trying to entice them into a pen with grains, for example.) One female was captured in 1927 and lived 12 years in captivity at Robe (where the film was made), but a mate for her was never found. She died in 1939. |
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Post by toothandclaw on Jun 22, 2014 15:45:31 GMT 10
Glad that you got to the SAM drtom, I think it is a lovely little institution. Musings on Thylacoleo are a great pasttime (engaged by myself quite a lot!) and I would just like to add a thought or two. The weight of the animal seems more likely to fall on the smaller size, these things do tend to get exaggerated over time. That said, the beast seems to have some serious muscle mass in the front end so I tend to think 100kg is possible but probably above average. I like to compare the size to a big dog (say, a great dane)that is built like a bulldog or staffy- muscular but not massive. The skeleton in the SAM gallery is an old one that was made before a complete specimen was found, it is a composite of several individuals (the skull and jaws are three animals alone!) and has been enhanced with other bones(the ribs and some vertebrae are actually from some sort of kangaroo). Combine this with a short, squat posture and you have an animal that is in a serious need of updating. Check out the model that Museum Victoria have- still not complete but much more dynamic than the SAM one. museumvictoria.com.au/melbournemuseum/discoverycentre/600-million-years/timeline/quaternary/thylacoleo/ I am torn between possummy or catty for the facial features- the skull is rather shaped like a lions' (thus the name) but close comparison shows a lot of variation too. Thylacines look a lot like dogs but the differences are still there and despite the convergence with big cats, thylacoleo is probably more marsupial than feline in detail but catty enough to be described as such to a lucky observer. Anyway, random musings over for now. |
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Post by mingle on Jun 22, 2014 18:14:09 GMT 10
I wonder if any experienced cranial reconstruction artists have ever had a go at Thylacoleo? This is one of the ones that I like the look of the most (very cleverly photoshopped):  |
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Post by mingle on Jun 25, 2014 13:39:55 GMT 10
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