Is this a Tasmanian tiger nest?

[youcantry]

I found this in Tasmania some time ago. Width across this (presumably) nest is approximately 1 metre, maybe a little more. When I found it I quickly searched for bones but didn't find any - however I didn't look for tiny bone fragments; I just looked for what might have been a left-over meal in the event a thylacine brought food there.

The nest material seems to be almost entirely grass, together with some twigs and sticks. The thing that looks like a bone I have to conclude was actually a stick - I would have noticed it was a bone when I was there checking it otherwise.

Lots of wombat scats close to the nest and near other rocky outcrops nearby.

Location is on higher ground, rocky outcrop. Valley below has patches of button grass plains fringed by bush.

So,

1) What do you think made the nest?

2) Does anyone have any reference to wombats making nests?

3) Does anyone have any references regarding the materials used by thylacines to make nests? (Wikipedia says twigs, bark and fern fronds, but the nearest reference links back to a report on Western Australian thylacine sightings - I'd have to chase up and see what that reference itself points to in order to draw a conclusion about those nesting materials).

[seth24]

Apr 7, 2014 15:58:48 GMT 10 youcantry said:

I found this in Tasmania some time ago. Width across this (presumably) nest is approximately 1 metre, maybe a little more. When I found it I quickly searched for bones but didn't find any - however I didn't look for tiny bone fragments; I just looked for what might have been a left-over meal in the event a thylacine brought food there.

The nest material seems to be almost entirely grass, together with some twigs and sticks. The thing that looks like a bone I have to conclude was actually a stick - I would have noticed it was a bone when I was there checking it otherwise.

Lots of wombat scats close to the nest and near other rocky outcrops nearby.

Location is on higher ground, rocky outcrop. Valley below has patches of button grass plains fringed by bush.

So,

1) What do you think made the nest?

2) Does anyone have any reference to wombats making nests?

3) Does anyone have any references regarding the materials used by thylacines to make nests? (Wikipedia says twigs, bark and fern fronds, but the nearest reference links back to a report on Western Australian thylacine sightings - I'd have to chase up and see what that reference itself points to in order to draw a conclusion about those nesting materials).

[seth24]

Chris there was mention on wikipeda-thylacine, that it was a nocturnal hunter, spending daylight hours, in smallcaves or hollow tree trunks in a
nest of twigs, bark or fern fronds. i don't know about grass though. on another site there was reference to the thylacine, who tended to feed in
woodland and grasslands, whilst nesting in dense forests on hilly terrain. would this suggest a similar area, of your nest, rocky hilly outcrop, surrounded by bushland.

[dennisw]

It is unlikely to be a wombat "nest" they live in burrows usually with several levels that enable them to move to cooler or warmer parts of the burrow as they feel the need.

[Deleted]

Did you look for egg shells?
BC

[robbie robot]

i have seen lyre bird nest like that in overhangs and small caves.

[scrubboy]

I read somewhere that they were at times seen in captivity carrying straw in their mouths adjusting there makeshift beds. I can't remember where i read that though. Sorry.

[saggitarius]

From my limited experience of lyrebird nests I have seen, they tend to have a lot more twigs in the nest than this. Still that is Victorian experience. Maybe in Tassie they prefer tussocky grass because there is more of it available in the bush.
If it is a new lyrebird nest I would have expected it to have some more shape to it, and if an old one, then there should have been some scats and downy feather materials mixed in with the nesting material. I can't see any of that.

[youcantry]

I did not find feathers or fur but to be honest I did not look too long. Anything that looks like a bone in this photo is almost certainly a twig. I scanned the site for signs of animal remains but found nothing.

The online thylacine museum has a photo of a lair in which a thylacine was captured and that contained a nest. The material was fern fronds and leaf litter. My thoughts are:

* "my" nest contains grass and twigs. Different materials, but you can see in Le Souef's photo a live fern. I would say it's conceivable that thylacines in different habitats could use different materials - so the difference in material is not a showstopper for me.

* Both Le Souef's and my nest show a remarkable consistency in material composition. By this I mean it looks like the material was very selectively chosen. It's not the case that just any old bits of twigs and grass and leaves and feathers - or whatever - were used. I think this is notable but you could also point out that birds might use similar materials or consistencies yet be different species.

* I'm told devils make nests too. I'd want to see more info/photos about devil nests to make a more informed opinion.

* I just want to note that even though Le Souef's thylacine was captured in a rocky overhang that contained a nest, that does not mean his thylacine made the nest.

I'm thinking next steps might be to go back and do a really detailed inspection of the nest material. For what it's worth I had a camera on this nest for nearly a year with absolutely no animal triggers.

[seth24]

Apr 14, 2014 15:46:18 GMT 10 youcantry said:

I did not find feathers or fur but to be honest I did not look too long. Anything that looks like a bone in this photo is almost certainly a twig. I scanned the site for signs of animal remains but found nothing.

The online thylacine museum has a photo of a lair in which a thylacine was captured and that contained a nest. The material was fern fronds and leaf litter. My thoughts are:

* "my" nest contains grass and twigs. Different materials, but you can see in Le Souef's photo a live fern. I would say it's conceivable that thylacines in different habitats could use different materials - so the difference in material is not a showstopper for me.

* Both Le Souef's and my nest show a remarkable consistency in material composition. By this I mean it looks like the material was very selectively chosen. It's not the case that just any old bits of twigs and grass and leaves and feathers - or whatever - were used. I think this is notable but you could also point out that birds might use similar materials or consistencies yet be different species.

* I'm told devils make nests too. I'd want to see more info/photos about devil nests to make a more informed opinion.

* I just want to note that even though Le Souef's thylacine was captured in a rocky overhang that contained a nest, that does not mean his thylacine made the nest.

I'm thinking next steps might be to go back and do a really detailed inspection of the nest material. For what it's worth I had a camera on this nest for nearly a year with absolutely no animal triggers.

Chris, i notice the "cave" consists of rock conglomerate, and being situated on a rocky outcrop would that be
around the Adamsfield area. cheers seth

[Deleted]

Here is a link to a photo of a Lyrebird's nest.
It certainly doesn't look anything like the one above seen by Chris.

australianmuseum.net.au/Superb-Lyrebird/

[trixiemurie]

It is a Thylacine Lair.

Check out the photo on www.naturalworlds.org/thylacine/biology/behaviour/behaviour_9.htm

Tracker Scout on fb, Thylacine Adventurers, recognized this type of rock conglomerate being from the Adamsfield = thylacine hot zone. Tracker has lived in Adamsfield for years and is a recognized wildlife and tracking expert amongst his peers.

Tracker Scout also featured in the documentary - Devil't Island, Killer Instinct with Rob Bredl, discussing all his thylacine sightings over the years around Adamsfield. If anyone wants a copy of the documentary, message me! Youcantry, Seth24, and Saggitarius have seen it.

[youcantry]

Well, to date -

1) One footprint in wet mud (2009). Tracing the outline matches Guiler's illustrations quite well. Despite this, Nick Mooney suggested it was a wombat print, Tigerman said it's wombat, but near enough to tiger to give people the idea of what you're looking for, and Barabara Triggs said she couldn't pick between the two (wombat/tiger) but if forced would say wombat, without any certainty. I don't understand how a wombat could produce a print like that without obvious claw marks in mud that soft. Notably, the claw marks that *are* visible match exactly those that turned up in a plaster cast of a taxidermy, copies of which were being offered on Ebay.

2) A vocalisation (2013). Of course, we only have text descriptions and no audio recordings of a thylacine but what I heard matched the descriptions of a "double yip". I described it as a "tiu tiu". If you really want to try, try adding a 'p' to the end and softening the leading 't' and you could equally describe it as "yip yip". Tracker Scout confirmed the time of day and my location matches where he claims to hear vocalisations.

3) A nest (2013). I've shown it here and on FB. Similarities and differences to the alleged thylacine nest where Le Seouf's tiger was captured are discussed above.

With all 3 anecdotes you could argue they are not conclusive: the print was a wombat keeping its toes out of the mud; the call was a deer barking or simply a bird species I'm not familiar with, or, most co-incidentally, someone walking their pet terrier down forestry roads somewhere near the wilderness areas; and the nest is that of a bird, re-purposed by wombats.

But with all 3 I argue you could also suggest they are pretty consistent with what we believe we know about thylacines.

[seth24]

Apr 22, 2014 13:15:04 GMT 10 youcantry said:

Well, to date -

1) One footprint in wet mud (2009). Tracing the outline matches Guiler's illustrations quite well. Despite this, Nick Mooney suggested it was a wombat print, Tigerman said it's wombat, but near enough to tiger to give people the idea of what you're looking for, and Barabara Triggs said she couldn't pick between the two (wombat/tiger) but if forced would say wombat, without any certainty. I don't understand how a wombat could produce a print like that without obvious claw marks in mud that soft. Notably, the claw marks that *are* visible match exactly those that turned up in a plaster cast of a taxidermy, copies of which were being offered on Ebay.

2) A vocalisation (2013). Of course, we only have text descriptions and no audio recordings of a thylacine but what I heard matched the descriptions of a "double yip". I described it as a "tiu tiu". If you really want to try, try adding a 'p' to the end and softening the leading 't' and you could equally describe it as "yip yip". Tracker Scout confirmed the time of day and my location matches where he claims to hear vocalisations.

3) A nest (2013). I've shown it here and on FB. Similarities and differences to the alleged thylacine nest where Le Seouf's tiger was captured are discussed above.

With all 3 anecdotes you could argue they are not conclusive: the print was a wombat keeping its toes out of the mud; the call was a deer barking or simply a bird species I'm not familiar with, or, most co-incidentally, someone walking their pet terrier down forestry roads somewhere near the wilderness areas; and the nest is that of a bird, re-purposed by wombats.

But with all 3 I argue you could also suggest they are pretty consistent with what we believe we know about thylacines.

Recieved a copy of the doco devils island-killer instinct with rob bredl from tina, and would gather that your nest chris was around the Adamsfield area
Would like your views on the print casts that tracker scout produced in the doco, and were these casts/prints been produced before.
How would these prints match up to the one you found, ie (monster quest) I know they were'nt the best of casts taken. ie copy of original casts which
evidently are locked away. He did say that he came across the prints whilst out with a mate. could this give credence to the "supposed" incident mentioned in
the 'jaws of extinction' doco, re-interview with col bailey,of the story that a thylacine was shot by two "hunters". there was no mention of his 1995? discovery of
a dead thylacine carcass in a den. which i think this doco was made in 2005? regards seth

[Deleted]

I was taken to a hollow tree in the Strathbogie Ranges, that was known to be a thylacine shelter.
I tapped on the tree and asked,"Anyone home". I heard a distinct thylacine vocalisation. "GRRRRRRR".
The stink was unmistakable. Friend said it was thylacine and on a previous occasion he saw 4 Thyla pups run into the tree
BC

[Freddo]

Apr 22, 2014 21:48:05 GMT 10 @bushcat said:

I was taken to a hollow tree in the Strathbogie Ranges, that was known to be a thylacine shelter.
I tapped on the tree and asked,"Anyone home". I heard a distinct thylacine vocalisation. "GRRRRRRR".
The stink was unmistakable. Friend said it was thylacine and on a previous occasion he saw 4 Thyla pups run into the tree
BC

I'm calling nonsense one this...

If this is true, surely you would've netted any exit-points and simply trapped the 'thylacine'. After which you could take photos/videos/film and then release the animal(s). Or, heck, capture it/them and call in the local zoo.

Or at least set up watch on the tree, with a camera in-hand, ready to take photos when the adult returns or the pups go for a wander.

Or even collect hair and other samples for analysis.

Failure to do any of this would be like knowing the lottery numbers, but then deliberately not fill-in a ticket - wouldn't happen.

Freddo...

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 9:51:48 GMT 10 Freddo said:

Apr 22, 2014 21:48:05 GMT 10 @bushcat said:

I was taken to a hollow tree in the Strathbogie Ranges, that was known to be a thylacine shelter.
I tapped on the tree and asked,"Anyone home". I heard a distinct thylacine vocalisation. "GRRRRRRR".
The stink was unmistakable. Friend said it was thylacine and on a previous occasion he saw 4 Thyla pups run into the tree
BC

I'm calling nonsense one this...

If this is true, surely you would've netted any exit-points and simply trapped the 'thylacine'. After which you could take photos/videos/film and then release the animal(s). Or, heck, capture it/them and call in the local zoo.

Or at least set up watch on the tree, with a camera in-hand, ready to take photos when the adult returns or the pups go for a wander.

Or even collect hair and other samples for analysis.

Failure to do any of this would be like knowing the lottery numbers, but then deliberately not fill-in a ticket - wouldn't happen.

Freddo...

Oh! Thank GOD I'm not the only one who thought this is complete twaddle.
You have no idea how difficult it has been to remain "silent" for almost 8 months!

I (never having heard a thylacine, but, never mind)...heard a distinct thylacine vocalisation. "GRRRRRRR".

Really? Wow. And then, you did......................................................nothing.

BC or BS?

You be the judge.

[Deleted]

Hey you guys,
Leave BC alone, I for one love reading his stories and in fact only joined this forum to enquire about his health after a prolonged absence. I have never posted before but wanted to say leave this great elderly gent alone, you make yourselves look like asshats.
Shadowfax

[Freddo]

Dec 10, 2014 22:03:40 GMT 10 @shadowfax said:

Hey you guys,
Leave BC alone, I for one love reading his stories and in fact only joined this forum to enquire about his health after a prolonged absence. I have never posted before but wanted to say leave this great elderly gent alone, you make yourselves look like asshats.
Shadowfax

I don't think there's any problem with asking some pretty straightforward questions.

I'm certainly not attacking anyone in the way you are.

Surely, we all visit these sites in the hope of one day seeing irrefutable evidence of supposed extinct creatures.

If a member here claims to have had the opportunity to collect that evidence, it's a bit strange that they didn't.

Freddo...

[Ian Thomas]

yeah guys, ah, while Tgals away she sorta left me to keep an eye on things.

Ok now, me, sis (aka Tgal), our dad and also Plezio did a LOT of camera work looking for thylas, big cats and whatevr else out there that moved. Never saw nothing 'weird' and I better say by now we got serious doubts about the whole story. Big cats et al sounded sort of plausible 10 years ago. But now, let's say it seems 'unlikely'.

These days there's 100s cameras out there have never seen anything and there's never been a thyla or big cat roadkill. Those two things count against it a LOT imo.
Especially since there have been Tassie devil roadkills in Victoria. Which means devils are out there someplace. In low numbers I guess but they do get roadkilled.

All that said, i still say big cats + thylas are not impossible. There are believable witnesses who reckon they definitely positvely saw one under good lighting conditions etc. They're not all liars. You can't rule it out but stories are not evidence. You gotta have a body. or pretty good video or photos.

There's one thing we learned travelling round the bush and that is be polite and listen to what people have to say. No matter if you don't believe, doesn't matter.

so go easy on bc who is an elderly gent with LOTs of interesting stories to tell about the Outback.

Ian

[vincent]

Dec 11, 2014 8:21:19 GMT 10 Ian Thomas said:

... bc who is an elderly gent with LOTs of interesting stories to tell about the Outback.

Yes.  Keep 'em coming, BC.  

[Deleted]

Thank you kind gentlemen, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
It is nice to know some of my stories are appreciated, even if the way outs are doubting. I assure you everything I wrote was from personnel close experience.
Why did'nt I do something about the tree den. How the hell could I, net it with my back pack. and then what. I was 1200 Km from home, travelling light with a friend and were checking out a recent , cat-killed calf.
At a later time I did take a camera, one of my early home made cameras, and found that a thylacine's hearing ability was on a par with a bigcat. These cameras emitted a supersonic signal from the charged flash. Big-cat could hear it and apparently thylacine, no probs with everything else. I wasted 8 years on this venture
I used a road-killed wombat for bait, and after 2 nights of photographing roos , foxes, and nearby road traffic I took the camera away. Next night the wombat was predatored There was a small hole below the sternam and the carcass was completely eviscerated. This was no dog or cat, and we know a thylacine was nearby.
Those critics,is it their their sceptical nature, however they have a long way to go to match those abusive writers of yesteryear, the notorious Doc, the way out MM, and the 2 Gregs. Some of our long time contributors would remember them. and sundry other paranoics who graced these pages before they were banned for life.
Currently I am in the throes of moving house but will try to get my new L'il Acorn set up on a fox den.
On Ray's advice I will make a shelter for it to shade it from the sun.
When the sun eases off a bit I will try to decoy one of these Nullarbor bob-cats into range.
A friend who had a sighting near Port Augusta, called this morning and described his sighting in detail. It was big,with a bob tail. It stood its ground for a few seconds snarling abuse, then it just evaporated.
Never saw it go, it was there and then it was'nt, It took me a long time to solve the mystery as to why the big-cat can disappear while one watches, and now these critters do the same.
They drop onto their bellies and scoot off, flat on the ground. My grand niece lady farmer saw a cat doing a belly crawl away from a mob of sheep, where it had been hiding. It was going just as fast as if it was doing a long legged run, to an escarpment.
2 years ago this cat accounted for 60 sheep and lambs, a couple last year and none this year so far.
Perhaps with the kangaroo infestation the cats prefer joey roos.
Enough for now, see what the sceptics will make of this effort.
Bushcat

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2014 22:03:40 GMT 10 @shadowfax said:

Hey you guys,
Leave BC alone, I for one love reading his stories and in fact only joined this forum to enquire about his health after a prolonged absence. I have never posted before but wanted to say leave this great elderly gent alone, you make yourselves look like asshats.
Shadowfax

Look, Sir Galahad.
I don't care if someone is young, old, black or white.
I respect old people. Hell, I'm one myself.
But, post BS and be prepared to defend it. That's all.
Sycophantic defense of what someone else says without evidence is very shakey ground.

Dr Tom

[Deleted]

Dec 12, 2014 14:19:26 GMT 10 @bushcat said:

Thank you kind gentlemen, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
It is nice to know some of my stories are appreciated, even if the way outs are doubting. I assure you everything I wrote was from personnel close experience.
Why did'nt I do something about the tree den. How the hell could I, net it with my back pack. and then what. I was 1200 Km from home, travelling light with a friend and were checking out a recent , cat-killed calf.
At a later time I did take a camera, one of my early home made cameras, and found that a thylacine's hearing ability was on a par with a bigcat. These cameras emitted a supersonic signal from the charged flash. Big-cat could hear it and apparently thylacine, no probs with everything else. I wasted 8 years on this venture
I used a road-killed wombat for bait, and after 2 nights of photographing roos , foxes, and nearby road traffic I took the camera away. Next night the wombat was predatored There was a small hole below the sternam and the carcass was completely eviscerated. This was no dog or cat, and we know a thylacine was nearby.
Those critics,is it their their sceptical nature, however they have a long way to go to match those abusive writers of yesteryear, the notorious Doc, the way out MM, and the 2 Gregs. Some of our long time contributors would remember them. and sundry other paranoics who graced these pages before they were banned for life.
Currently I am in the throes of moving house but will try to get my new L'il Acorn set up on a fox den.
On Ray's advice I will make a shelter for it to shade it from the sun.
When the sun eases off a bit I will try to decoy one of these Nullarbor bob-cats into range.
A friend who had a sighting near Port Augusta, called this morning and described his sighting in detail. It was big,with a bob tail. It stood its ground for a few seconds snarling abuse, then it just evaporated.
Never saw it go, it was there and then it was'nt, It took me a long time to solve the mystery as to why the big-cat can disappear while one watches, and now these critters do the same.
They drop onto their bellies and scoot off, flat on the ground. My grand niece lady farmer saw a cat doing a belly crawl away from a mob of sheep, where it had been hiding. It was going just as fast as if it was doing a long legged run, to an escarpment.
2 years ago this cat accounted for 60 sheep and lambs, a couple last year and none this year so far.
Perhaps with the kangaroo infestation the cats prefer joey roos.
Enough for now, see what the sceptics will make of this effort.
Bushcat

I don't have a problem with your enthusiasm, BC, and I respect the time you have devoted to your quest.
I don't think I am abusive in my posts. If I have been, it was unintentional and I am sorry.
But, if you read your tales they are a never-ending repeat of:

"Something incredible happened!" (No evidence, but never mind, I'll get that later.)
Later: "I set up a camera but the thylcoleo/big cat/whatever evaded it because the flash made a noise/it was too cunning/ the moon was in the wrong phase/ I wore the wrong shirt."
Later still: "The very next night a Thylacine/big cat visited." (No evidence, but never mind.)
Later still: "A sheep/goat/horse/donkey was found dead and partly eaten. The entire body was intact except that the ears had been removed and the entire liver had been extracted via the ears. This is a well-known trait of a Thylacine/big cat feeding pattern." (You wouldn't know, but again, never mind.)

Yes, I am a sceptic. Of your stories. Because you don't provide any evidence.
That is not a personal attack, but you seem to think it is (and so do some other bleeding hearts.)

[Deleted]

Well well it,s my old mate Uncle Tom. How is the cabin now days?, Uncle, are you still hand feeding your little devils?, if you are you must be proficient at stitching one handed. Whats the secret? do you use your teeth.

BC

[Ian Thomas]

Dec 12, 2014 18:49:37 GMT 10 @drtom said:

Look, Sir Galahad.
I don't care if someone is young, old, black or white.
I respect old people. Hell, I'm one myself.
But, post BS and be prepared to defend it. That's all.
Sycophantic defense of what someone else says without evidence is very shakey ground.

Dr Tom

Tom here says he's strong on evidence. Ok, we'll talk about that next. First up Tom here says he's an old coot like Wally. So how bout if you start talking like a man of years and not a sh*tty arsed brat?

[Deleted]

Firstly Dr Tom I must correct you, its not Sir Galahad its Lady Galahad and
secondly you need to relax or you'll give yourself heart burn . I will continue to enjoy 
BC's tales no matter what you or others say, you can call me a "bleeding heart" all you 
like it matters none to me  Bush Cat Rules!
Lady Shadowfax

[Deleted]

Dec 12, 2014 20:40:35 GMT 10 Ian Thomas said:

Dec 12, 2014 18:49:37 GMT 10 @drtom said:

Look, Sir Galahad.
I don't care if someone is young, old, black or white.
I respect old people. Hell, I'm one myself.
But, post BS and be prepared to defend it. That's all.
Sycophantic defense of what someone else says without evidence is very shakey ground.

Dr Tom

Tom here says he's strong on evidence. Ok, we'll talk about that next. First up Tom here says he's an old coot like Wally. So how bout if you start talking like a man of years and not a sh*tty arsed brat?

So now who's resorting to name-calling and insults!?
Call yourself an administrator?

[Deleted]

Dec 12, 2014 20:36:09 GMT 10 @bushcat said:

Well well it,s my old mate Uncle Tom. How is the cabin now days?, Uncle, are you still hand feeding your little devils?, if you are you must be proficient at stitching one handed. Whats the secret? do you use your teeth.

BC

Your sarcastic comments are wasted.
You would be better served collecting evidence to prove your far-fetched tales.

[Ian Thomas]

Dec 13, 2014 7:22:29 GMT 10 @drtom said:

Dec 12, 2014 20:40:35 GMT 10 Ian Thomas said:

Tom here says he's strong on evidence. Ok, we'll talk about that next. First up Tom here says he's an old coot like Wally. So how bout if you start talking like a man of years and not a sh*tty arsed brat?

So now who's resorting to name-calling and insults!?
Call yourself an administrator?

Take your meds, Tom. Quit making a fool of yourself.