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Post by tygeresque on Jun 3, 2014 18:39:50 GMT 10
Dr Tom.....I have met a "giant possum", black glossy all over and resembling a panther from the shoulders back
with an extra long bushy tail.....some sort of marsupial with an extremely large round possum-like face
not ugly like thylacoleo
100% thylas on mainland and Tas
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Post by observer on Jun 3, 2014 20:47:37 GMT 10
Being so new to this board, I'm quite surprised at the responses in this thread. I don't know whether it's blind optimism, but I expected higher figures.
I'm fascinated reading them all, so please carry on
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Post by DP on Jun 3, 2014 22:09:19 GMT 10
Dear Obs. we can only hope that with the proliferation of trail cams out there these days, somebody will get that picture that leads to a capture, as this is the only irrefutable evidence that many will accept.
Government departments have lots of these cameras in the bush. Unfortunately most of them are positioned to catch illegal dumping of rubbish or deer poaching in the catchments or persons helping them selves to logging off cuts for fire wood. It is hard to justify time and money and staff to look for things that officially don't exist so I would not expect to see many cameras looking for Thylacines or big cats.
What if one of these government cameras did snap a thyolcine in the central highlands or similar? Well, we have this curious predicament where the department in charge of protecting the forest and animals is only one degree of separation away from the department that is in charge of cutting down the forest and feeding the subsequent river of cash that this generates to the state - which in turn provides these cosy government jobs.
An old logger I spoke to once summed it up pretty well, I asked him, "do you see many unusual or out of place animals as part of your work in the bush" he replied "oh, you see lots of feral dogs and cats, occasional dingo or pig and you know XXXX he recons he's seen a panther" "How about Tasy Tigers" I said... He paused and looked me in the eye, with a look that implied - how dumb are you mate, and said "do you really think anyone out here would say anything if they did" Hmmm point taken - They have there business and livelihood to lose.
Stick around Obs. and if you know anybody that has seen anything interesting please point them our way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 8:52:42 GMT 10
Dr Tom.....I have met a "giant possum", black glossy all over and resembling a panther from the shoulders back with an extra long bushy tail.....some sort of marsupial with an extremely large round possum-like face not ugly like thylacoleo 100% thylas on mainland and Tas I'm sure we would all be interested in more detail, if you can share them, Tigeresque. For example, which state, approximate location, year, size of animal, duration of sighting, conditions at the time, etc etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2014 21:02:40 GMT 10
Hmmmm There is a theory that if you have enough people guess the amount of jelly beans in a jar and average the amounts guessed you will have the sum total of jelly beans in the jar! I wonder if this works on probabilities of cryptids existence :-p
So my uneducated two bobs worth is:
Qld Tiger: 75%
Thylacoleo if not Qld tiger 5%
Some large cat like animal lurking in the bush scarring average citizens like my self 100%
Thylacine mainland 20% based on first hand accounts from close Freinds minus the palm frond causing shadow/mangy fox/dingo theories and then there is desperation divergence causing it to not be a true Tas tiger. And one percent for the theory that David Fleay smuggled a few back from Tas and let them go in SEQ (Only because while not likely would make a good story if it were true!)
Abnormally large Big Feral Cats 100% ( personal experience more on that later)
Large introduced cat: 95% hey we have all other types of introduced feral species! But reduce that to 20% for a breeding population.
Mainland devils - well I'll bedevilled :-) ( Not educated enough on the subject sorry.)
As yet unidentified species of big cat introduced pre cook: 5 percent.
Pre Cook exploration: Likely but by whom not sure. (Mayby the left a moggie or 2!)
2x different unidentified marsupial carnivores existing post Cook. 10%
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Post by youcantry on Jun 5, 2014 14:24:26 GMT 10
Ah, sorry. I wasn't referring to actual diminutive Aboriginal people, rather the "little people" that are frequently sighted. Here's the thing about the "little people" you mean - My impression is that they're similar size to Homo floresiensis. Isn't there a story (or is this just the rumour mill / myth) that indigenous Indonesian tribes still have historical accounts of these "little people" living in high mountains - well at least as at a few hundred years ago? If you read the article I linked about pygmies, the impression some anthropologists have is that pygmies first migrated out of Africa, then as taller tribes came through the pygmies were restricted to the least accessible locations: islands, mountain tops (in general). Thus both in SE Asia and in Australia the pygmy tribes tended to dwell in remote jungles atop mountains. Now let's ask if there's a possibility H. floresiensis really is more modern than the archaelogical evidence to date. That is, so we dig and we say they were here through to about 12,000 years ago or so - well so be it, but what if we just have not yet discovered later archeological evidence? And what if there is merit in the indigenous stories of little people? Weren't such small people also counted amongst an indigenous Hawaiian census some time back too? (See account of 1820 census which included 65 people described as menehune here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menehune . Incidentally I believe the Philippines also has stories of such little people). Now take the topography of a place like Wollemi National park - which I understand consists of many closely packed valleys with steep walls (see photos below). It is 5,000 square kilometers - what's that - about 50km x 100km? Could it be possible little people still live here without the use of fire in small numbers? I mean, I live in Sydney. Wollemi actually fringes Sydney. There is just basically no profile for this National Park with Sydney-siders. There is maybe 1 road through it. Nobody says "hey, let's go bushwalking in Wollemi" - it's just "too hard". Wollemi is not a place people go. You've got your dinosaur tree. You've got Aboriginal artefacts still being discovered in caves and amongst rocky ledges even during the past couple of decades. That means they've sat there for 200+ years while the nation's first European settlement has grown to 5 million people right on the doorstep - and yet you've still got indigenous artworks and artefacts just lying there untouched. That's something to think about.
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Post by Thylacoleo Gal on Jun 6, 2014 6:12:16 GMT 10
Perhaps not irrelevant to the above musings are these discoveries, just in --> We may have to revise those low probabilities for thylacines et al upwards?
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Post by molloch on Jun 6, 2014 8:38:06 GMT 10
Sadly, those "rare marsupials" were, only a few years ago, listed as "least concern". Land clearing and spread of cane toads are the main causes for their decline, now they are very rare across the Top End of Australia.
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Post by Isengard on Jul 24, 2014 9:06:58 GMT 10
It's been a long time since I had the time to really read the board and contribute. Sadly due to lack of personal experience I couldn't do more than guess at this. In terms of the thylacine on Tasmania I'd have to say in my opinion it is gone now but certainly survived longer than the extinction date, but with no effort to preserve habitat I guess the odds are poor. However, I live in hope! What I can say from my British perspective is that Australia is a damn sight better suited to cryptid survival than, say, England. You have huge swathes of territory with virtually no population where all sorts could be hiding. So keep the flame alive and hope for some interesting discoveries!
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Post by uptonogood on Jul 31, 2014 8:50:34 GMT 10
Hi all I'm a long time lurker and finally decided to join up and contribute myself. My list of what is out in the bush -thylacoleo amost certain yes. >90%. Stories related to me by both my grandpa and his brother from when they were teenagers (1940s)have me convinced. I'll relate them at a later time. -Thylacine Tas possible but decreasing every year. 20% Mainland not likely sub 5% but some stories I've heard create some doubt. -Big cats (all species) very likely 85% breeding population undecided. Other animals I have heard the occasional murmur. But I'm not hopeful. The most interesting was of a short faced kangaroo! Cheers Phil ps I love this forum, informative and some posts very amusing.
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Post by mingle on Jul 31, 2014 14:43:27 GMT 10
Welcome to the site!
I'm sure we'd all be very interested to hear of any stories or sightings you'd care to pass on.
Cheers,
Mike.
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Post by Thylacoleo Gal on Aug 2, 2014 6:53:04 GMT 10
Me too - you are most welcome to the Quest uptonogood, even if you are Up-To-No-Good! I look forward to hearing Thylacoleo (and other!) stories told by your grandad and bro.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 19:47:05 GMT 10
Yowie - It stretched up to get a good look and then turned and walked away behind a cliff face - 10 foot tall judging by the tree it stood beside. Huge. Yes, they exist. Not seen any signs of the other thylacines or big cats but got one distant shot of some weird doggy looking head once.
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Post by Thylacoleo Gal on Aug 26, 2014 21:36:28 GMT 10
The snag with 'unknown hominid' theories in an Australians setting is there's no fossil background to give the idea traction. Which does seem odd since human cousins inhabited islands just a few score kilometres from Sahul's NW coast for millions of years. But there it is .. no trace.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2014 0:55:55 GMT 10
The snag with 'unknown hominid' theories in an Australians setting is there's no fossil background to give the idea traction. Which does seem odd since human cousins inhabited islands just a few score kilometres from Sahul's NW coast for millions of years. But there it is .. no trace. Fossilisation is an extremely rare event and requires very special conditions. Second point - given the feral pig population in this country being in the millions, when is the last time anyone here found the remains of one that did not die from a bullet or a vehicle impact. Same for kangaroos. Third, if they are some kind of intelligent hominid they may well bury their dead - we know that deliberate hominid burial goes back into the late Pliestoscene. An animal that dies and is not buried is rapidly consumed by animals and organisms and the bones disintegrate by weathering or are just buried in leaf litter or other vegetation until acidification dissolves them. The frequent road kill kangaroo skeletons in my paddocks are usually totally gone in a few years. Urban folk have little idea about this and think every set of bones becomes a fossil. Lastly, most sightings are in remote areas of which Australia has a surprising large area for what might be a small population of hominids. Except for a few spots they seem to stay well away from human habitation and even when seen in places like the Blue Mountains, they are close to huge national parks which are rarely visited by hikers except along well travelled tracks. I think many would be shocked to know just how many are seen in places like the Blue Mountains or that sightings are accepted as nothing unusual by those who live on the ridge lines there. In fact they are quite blase about sightings. Many cannot be dismissed as mis-identification or fabrications. Anyone who finds hair they think might be from them is welcome to contact me. There is a group of scientists here and overseas who check such hairs and will do DNA analysis on promising samples. This is a quiet investigation into the possibility. The hairs will be from 50mm to 300mm long and look similar to human hair. They may have any colour but mostly seem to look like red Orangutan hair. Apart from dogs, pigs, goats, domestic stock and humans, native animals have short (less than 50mm) easily identified hairs. Further, hairs from the other non hominid animals mentioned are not hard to classify. That just leaves human and unknown hairs. If they are hominids their hair may well look like other large primates. Barbed wire fences or coarse foliage may catch the hairs. There are other places likely hairs have been found. It's not in clumps but usually as single or a few strands. There is a long term project to search for evidence so please don't hesitate to contact me. Before anyone asks, we are not interested in scats. We will also check hairs for possible big cats, thylacines or suspected thylacoleo. No examples of hair from thylacoleo exist for comparison but we can eliminate all other possibles.
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Post by cantona on Aug 28, 2014 19:23:34 GMT 10
Thylacines both on Tas and the mainland - 75% Thylacoleo - 50% Yowie - 75% - Just finished reading the book on this.
Plenty of space throughout for these animals to 'hide'
Mainland devils - 10%
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Post by dennisw on Aug 29, 2014 2:58:10 GMT 10
Thylacines both on Tas and the mainland - 75% Thylacoleo - 50% Yowie - 75% - Just finished reading the book on this. Plenty of space throughout for these animals to 'hide' Mainland devils - 10% Why only a 10% chance of mainland devils they are the only species where hard evidence has been discovered? There was a site listing the various locations of devil roadkill in Victoria but it seems to have been taken down.
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Post by cantona on Aug 31, 2014 3:13:06 GMT 10
Thylacines both on Tas and the mainland - 75% Thylacoleo - 50% Yowie - 75% - Just finished reading the book on this. Plenty of space throughout for these animals to 'hide' Mainland devils - 10% Why only a 10% chance of mainland devils they are the only species where hard evidence has been discovered? There was a site listing the various locations of devil roadkill in Victoria but it seems to have been taken down. I know the mainland devils exist, but had them down as escapees, as opposed the others that I believe breed on the mainland, and never vanished. I have always thought the mainland devils to be occasional specimens, mainly because devils are precocious, loud and carrion feeders, they would be well spotted IMO. Thylacines are by nature secretive, and I suspect Thylacoleo is an ambush hunter and therefore very, very secretive by nature. The yowie exists, fossil record or no fossil record, but then may be more than simply a flesh and blood animal.
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Post by dennisw on Aug 31, 2014 11:00:16 GMT 10
In 70 years of being in the bush I have only seen one devil and that was while standing on a high rock face on Mt Hickey, I was with a guy from Victour early one morning when it walked through the forest at the foot of the rock about 20M below us and we had a very good view for 10 seconds or more. I have seen "panthers" about six times, twice very clearly and once up close, all these animals are nocturnal so daylight sightings are rare just as possums cannot be seen during the day but with a good light you can find dozens most nights.
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Post by cantona on Aug 31, 2014 21:51:44 GMT 10
In 70 years of being in the bush I have only seen one devil and that was while standing on a high rock face on Mt Hickey, I was with a guy from Victour early one morning when it walked through the forest at the foot of the rock about 20M below us and we had a very good view for 10 seconds or more. I have seen "panthers" about six times, twice very clearly and once up close, all these animals are nocturnal so daylight sightings are rare just as possums cannot be seen during the day but with a good light you can find dozens most nights. Wow, a mainland devil sighting, must have been incredible. What year was this?
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Post by dennisw on Sept 1, 2014 10:07:03 GMT 10
That was in the summer of either 1988 or 1989, I was looking at developing some land I owned up that way to build a bush resort hence the tourism department guy being present. Eventually I decided that the return would not be sufficient to recover costs within a reasonable time, there were places with infrastructure already in place that could be developed cheaper.
We also operated a cafe in Broadford at the time and one night a family who had recently bought property in the area and moved up from town came in because the noises of strange animals had so terrified them. Their description of the sounds inclined me to think of devils, although brawling possums can make a range of similar noises so I would not mark that down unless I had heard it personally.
Our "panthers" are reported to "roar like a lion" but so too do koalas, it is difficult to identify animals from their sounds alone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2014 19:32:41 GMT 10
Anyone who finds hair they think might be from them is welcome to contact me. There is a group of scientists here and overseas who check such hairs and will do DNA analysis on promising samples. This is a quiet investigation into the possibility. The hairs will be from 50mm to 300mm long and look similar to human hair. They may have any colour but mostly seem to look like red Orangutan hair. Apart from dogs, pigs, goats, domestic stock and humans, native animals have short (less than 50mm) easily identified hairs. Further, hairs from the other non hominid animals mentioned are not hard to classify. That just leaves human and unknown hairs. If they are hominids their hair may well look like other large primates. Barbed wire fences or coarse foliage may catch the hairs. There are other places likely hairs have been found. It's not in clumps but usually as single or a few strands. There is a long term project to search for evidence so please don't hesitate to contact me. Before anyone asks, we are not interested in scats. We will also check hairs for possible big cats, thylacines or suspected thylacoleo. No examples of hair from thylacoleo exist for comparison but we can eliminate all other possibles. This sounds like an interesting project Yourie. Are you able to tell us some more about it? Are you associated with government agencies, or universities? Do you have a current research permit, and if so, who issued it? Have you received any funding for your work? What plans do you have in the event that you make a positive identification of a sample? Will you announce it on the web? Or publish it in the scientific literature maybe? And given that the current federal government have recently cut back or watered down numerous environmental programs, what are your thoughts on the release of such information during this term of office?
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Post by vincent on Sept 7, 2014 22:18:37 GMT 10
Do you have a current research permit, and if so, who issued it? I've never heard of a research permit. Why would one need a research permit? Is all research in Oz permitted?
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Post by dennisw on Sept 8, 2014 8:45:14 GMT 10
If you look for restrictions you can find all sorts of problems and permits required, just do it and if they ask you simply tell them you are doing a hobby nothing serious; but they will send police with a warrant to seize radioactive material - you are not allowed to conduct nuclear experiments even away from built up areas.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2014 12:04:34 GMT 10
I've never heard of a research permit. Why would one need a research permit? Is all research in Oz permitted? Technically you probably do need a research permit for wildlife research of this nature, and researchers who publish their findings always quote a permit number. In palaeontology, I work under the Museum Victoria permit, issued by Parks Victoria. I don't have the detail in front of me but I'm pretty sure you even need a permit to handle roadkill, or to deal with flora or fauna in any way at all. Permits are not difficult to get - you can apply online. In practice of course this is rarely enforced, but in the hypothetical case of rediscovery of the thylacine for instance, if a group or individual obtained a body or a sample without a permit, then made a financial gain as a result, they could be open to prosecution for failing to obtain a permit, or confiscation of assets obtained "illegally"
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Post by Surroundx on Sept 20, 2014 23:42:29 GMT 10
Thylacines (Tasmania) 5%Thylacines (mainland) 1%Mainland devils 1%Night parrot 100%Yowie 1%Bunyip 1%Big cats (large F. cattus) 100%Big cats (exotic species) 10%Eastern quoll (mainland) 4%Desert rat-kangaroo 15%Nyctophilus howensis 5%Christmas Island shrew 1%Gastric brooding frogs (both species) 1%Broad-faced potoroo 1%Conilurus albipes 1%Lesser stick-nest rat 5%Megalania -100% (yes, minus 100 ) Thylacoleo 0%Genyornis 0%etc.
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