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Post by chela on Oct 25, 2013 11:39:55 GMT 10
if marsupial joeys cant survive on cow milk
then how true is the tale repeated in this book
another story on the internet details how someone supposedly raised 3 joeys on cow milk and meat
I'd like to know how the thyla young ate the meat
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 14:06:56 GMT 10
It isn't just lactose sensitivity that causes marsupials not to thrive on cow's milk, it is that marsupial milk is very specific and goes through a number of changes relative to the stage of the joey. Even puppies and kittens can't really survive on cows milk, although some do. Marsupials are not lactose intolerant, per se, but they have a very specific lactase capacity and can't digest any more lactose once they reach that level of lactose in their diet. Macropods can develop numerous problems, including diarrhea and eventually cataracts, from a high lactose diet. While the lactose content of milk varies greatly between species, it is very unlikely that any marsupial could be raised from an unfurred joey to adulthood on cows milk. A furred joey might have more of a chance, especially if the cow's milk was just supplementing the solid diet. Tassie Devil milk is about 45% solids, 30% fat, 5% sugars (including lactose and other carbohydrates), 6% protein, and 320mg of Calcium per 100ml Cows milk is about 13% solids, 4% fat, 5% sugars, 3% protein and 120mg/100ml Calcium. It is highly unlikely you can get a devil kit to survive on cows milk, I can't imagine a Thylacine would be much different. Ref: Jackson, S. Australian Mammals: Biology and Captive Management, Appendix 4 I beg to differ. In 1968 I obtained an unfurred baby Red-necked Wallaby. The mother was killed by a car. I raised him on cow's milk and then diversified his diet as soon as possible. He grew into a fine, healthy male.
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Post by molloch on Oct 25, 2013 14:40:55 GMT 10
Red-necked Wallabies and Red Kangaroos have more similar milk to cow's milk than other species, there is still a large discrepancy between furred and unfurred though. You were probably just lucky.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2013 16:51:56 GMT 10
Red-necked Wallabies and Red Kangaroos have more similar milk to cow's milk than other species, there is still a large discrepancy between furred and unfurred though. You were probably just lucky. I'd like to see a reference for that statement, please, Mr Molloch. "While the lactose content of milk varies greatly between species, it is very unlikely that any marsupial could be raised from an unfurred joey to adulthood on cows milk." Sweeping statements like this (that have been proven false) should not be made. After all, humans are routinely raised on cow's milk (and occasionally that of other species), so I don't see why it can't be used to raise a thylacine. I'd be the first to admit it wouldn't be optimal, but I'd never say "it can't be done".
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Post by molloch on Oct 25, 2013 18:02:53 GMT 10
I gave the reference in the post you quoted. Pages 480-486, there are also references in that book to about 30 journal articles with the specifics. I did say it was "very unlikely" not "impossible", but look at the comparison between devil's milk and cow's milk. I can tell you that you cannot raise an unfurred devil kit on cow's milk, the solids and fat content is way too low. There is a chart showing the changes in fat, carbohydrate and protein content at different ages for pouched tammar wallabies in figure 1. There is also a table showing the composition of various milk - cow milk wasn't there, so I dug up the figures from an agricultural text book, but Red necked wallabies and devils are there. I also have a fair bit of personal experience raising young marsupials. You can read some of the book online: books.google.com/books?id=Ys_NC1P9AX4C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=falseBut some key bits are missing. I have the full volume here and a few of the references if you want more info. Here are some quotes from the text:
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2013 7:37:23 GMT 10
I bought Col Bailey's book while down in Tasmania. I found it to be a bit verbose in some sections and a bit brief in others, but that's just my take on it. One error and one fault noted, though. On P.20 he describes the Eastern Quoll (Dasyurus viverrinus) as having "white spots on its back and tail". It doesn't have spots on the tail, only on the body. There appears to be a text discontinuity between P 239 and 241 (there is a map on P 240) such that the text does not make sense. I wonder if others have noticed this? The only other thing I would comment on is a bit of inconsistency, where he sometimes criticises others for withholding information (from him), but then admits that he also is withholding information, or perhaps even giving out disinformation. (All with the animal's interests at heart, of course.) But, all in all, a good read.
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Post by kraftykarl on Dec 15, 2013 9:07:42 GMT 10
I ordered and read the Kindle version of the book.I really enjoyed it, Col helped me out at the end of the last century (how strange it seems talking about the "last century", makes me feel ancient) and even posted me a few things to England for me.
I particularly enjoyed the "hands on" approach to the book; relating stories that he had gathered or even experienced personally. The book doesn't really add much to the science of the Thylacine, that was obviously never the purpose of writing the book. How seriously you take it obviously depends upon your faith in the witnesses but if you choose to believe Col then the Thylacine was still with us at the end of the 20th century. It strikes me that his last sighting was nearly twenty years ago now and how Hans Naarding's 1982 sighting seems more plausible now that time has passed "They might still have existed 30 years ago but I doubt if the still do now" seeming to be the logic (could just be my perception).
Col's a man who's passionate about the Thylacine and has dedicated years of his life to the search for it, I think that we're really lucky that we have somebody as eloquent as himself to collate all these loose memories and publish them in a way that those of a non scientific nature are more likely relate to. I can see how his approach might upset, or at least not be taken seriously the scientists amongst us but I personally enjoy annecdotes about the Thylacine regardless of how little evidence there might be for them and I'm happy that they're being preserved and presented to us.
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Post by trixiemurie on Jan 2, 2014 11:14:35 GMT 10
Check out TRU Facebook page. Tracker Scout aka Rusty, a tasmanian who spends his time out in the bush, came across the dead Thylacine and photographed his foot. I looked at the discussion thread about Col Bailey's new book, saggitarius talks about seeing 10 colored photos of the same Thylacine shown to him by a researcher - Guiler, Mooney? Was tracker scout one of the hunters who killed the Thylacine accidentally ( he shoots feral cats in the bush because they are a menace to native wildlife) or did the hunters tell Tracker about the dead Thylacine after they took the 10 colored photos? Who took all the photos? The dead Thylacine was not yet in rigor Morris and could be moved around in different positions. Tracker claims when he came across it, it had been dead recently and he could not tell what killed it. Please help fill in blanks and start new discussion. I don't know how and am new to this format and making links, alerting members. Thanks! Tina Murie on FB. See discussion on fb and I referred to ProBoards too! Waiting for some explanations! Further proof Thylacine is extant! Yay! www.facebook.com/thylacineresearchunitedit: Fixed format and link - Molloch
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Thylacoleo Gal
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Thylacoleo Gal
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Post by Thylacoleo Gal on Jan 2, 2014 14:26:51 GMT 10
Hi Trixie! Welcome to the Quest and thanks for pointing out TRU's FB page. Will go check it out. I've known about TRU's exploits for a while now - who does not? Good luck with the search! Sadly the Quest has been "confined to base" for a few years now. Oh well, maybe this year, at last? Best - Debbie
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