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Post by youcantry on Jan 27, 2011 12:05:34 GMT 10
In a recent thread Ray posted a thylacine rock art pic. I'm having trouble making it appear in this post. Maybe someone can help? Anyway, I know we've linked to thylacine and thylacoleo rock art previously, but I thought: why not collect the pictures into a single thread? So I'll start with another pic. I took this photo north of Sydney. I want to ask you all whether you reckon it's a tiger or a dingo (or dog). By my understanding one Aboriginal style is to paint the outline without any internal decoration - or a solid colour silhouette - hence a lack of stripes. But it's the tail that really gets me.  |
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Post by mingle on Jan 27, 2011 15:06:10 GMT 10
I think you have to think within the bounds of the artistic license (and artistic skills) of the people who made the paintings.
Sure, the tail does look a bit thylacine-shaped, but it's also pointing upwards noticeably, plus the head looks like a bull-terrier with pointy ears...
See what I mean? If we got everyone on this forum to draw their idea of a thylacine silhouette, I bet we'd get a massive range of representations...
Now if the picture shows stripes, that's a different matter! :-)
Cheers,
Mike.
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Post by molloch on Jan 27, 2011 15:45:36 GMT 10
Look at the key features:
Pointy ears
Four legs of equal length
Quadrapedal gait
No pouch or scrotum shown
Tail raised (but could have been straight out in previous rendition)
No stripes
I would suggest that no pouch or scrotum drawn means that it is not a marsupial, the other attributes point to a dog. My guess is that it is a dingo.
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 27, 2011 17:13:08 GMT 10
this thylacine is spoken of as the dog of the great rainbow serpent, and its name sill survives in the kundedjnjenghmi language.
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 27, 2011 17:23:33 GMT 10
sounds a good idea chris . i havent seen that pic before what tribe did it i will asked what it represent . many northern tribes respect me . and many of the nsw artist taught me how to do tribal paintings. i did a four year course.day and night.
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Post by Surroundx on Jan 27, 2011 19:35:27 GMT 10
The tail makes me think its a thylacine, even though there aren't any stripes. There have been at least a few reports of mainland thylacines without stripes if I'm not mistaken? Which has led some to believe that the mainland version lacks stripes, though of course 'Old Hairy' clearly has stripes...Either way I agree that artistic license can make the intended subject look more like something else to somebody else viewing it.
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Post by johannes on Jan 27, 2011 19:39:06 GMT 10
the head looks like a bull-terrier with pointy ears...Some ancient austronesian breeds like the telomian do indeed look somewhat like a bull-terrier: www.kutya-tar.hu/fajtak/telomian
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 27, 2011 21:09:24 GMT 10
most of australian cave art is before cook. this is faded so maybe old ,i found some art in overhangs in the colo nsw it was old just off of singleton road 5mins. not many knows it was there. could be a large cat like creature they lift there tail when they spray ,look like there is something at rear that could represent that business . do quoll spray like a cat if so thylacoleo may as well
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 27, 2011 21:36:19 GMT 10
if you know the tribe there maybe a story of this.that was handed down,youcantry so asked an older person from that area that knows storys of thier people . if before the white man can only be dingo, thylacine. cat like animal , when i say cat like i mean thylacoleo as well as the yarri. if after the white man take your pick. good luc um. also the back is raised have any of yous seen a cat spray domestic or exotic not many might want to emit to watching cats do thier buisness.
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Post by molloch on Jan 28, 2011 9:37:38 GMT 10
Marsupials have their penis located between their anus and their scrotum, it is usual in rock art for males to be depicted with the penis or scrotum shown and the tail lifted, as in your Thylacine pic above. Females are usually drawn with a pouch. I don't know too much about it, but I assume this is just an unambiguous way to depict males vs females in basic cave art.
Don't confuse cat like behaviour with cat like form. Cats are more closely related to dolphins than they are to Thylacoleos or quolls. Quolls are more closely related to marsupial moles and numbats than to Thylacoleo.
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Post by youcantry on Jan 28, 2011 11:16:27 GMT 10
Yes molloch, but despite cats being more closely related to dolphins I am sure thylacoleo exhibits more cat-like behaviours  Like walking on the ground with four legs for starters!  |
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Post by youcantry on Jan 28, 2011 11:28:39 GMT 10
Ok - here are other images in the same set as that thylacine. (So the question will be - are you sure a lack of stripes means this is no thylacine now that you see all the other animals in the set are a solid ochre colour too?) First I believe are echidnas (but no spikes! cf. no stripes on the 'dog')  Someone explained to me who this is likely to be, but without looking up my notes, I've forgotten:  Another depiction of similar creature:  Third depiction of similar creature:  First portion of what I assume was an eel - a very long eel! Note the white ochre overlay  I'm guessing a turtle. Note the charcoal - possibly a different image?  Now this was the same rock shelter but in a fair distance away and set deep in the back of the shelter - so very possibly by completely different people at a different time. The style seems very different to the earlier images. My guess was people with arms raised.  ... and that question again was: Are you sure a lack of stripes means this is no thylacine now that you see all the other animals in the set are a solid ochre colour too? |
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:09:21 GMT 10
these animals look like dingos to me
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:14:01 GMT 10
i hope it here this time
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:15:01 GMT 10
my pics may be too big
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:18:55 GMT 10
have i been stop from putting pics up or theres another reason(anyone)
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:24:42 GMT 10
test 1
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:28:14 GMT 10
i tryed to send some strange animal art which i think was dingoes but for some reason i couldent send.
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:35:00 GMT 10
do you think its a horny devil. that photos you put up looks like a gilder ,but the horn like marks may be associated with this creature
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:40:52 GMT 10
dead thy with strait tail .
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:51:32 GMT 10
im going to have one more try at sending dingos you can try.if the dont come through sorry everyone.
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:53:57 GMT 10
dingos
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:55:18 GMT 10
god only knows
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:56:54 GMT 10
why cant i send them baiame
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 28, 2011 20:59:09 GMT 10
chris i send dingos to u ,i have cave art from the colo looks abit like them photos when i find them i post some.
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Post by lurcherman on Jan 29, 2011 6:06:39 GMT 10
Impressive pictures Youcantry.
The drawing on the first post has a marsupial's rump, or the upright tail may have been used to denote a placental cat - but my first thought was T. potens.
Of the seven drawings together: could the one you thought was an eel be a lungfish, or possibly a knifefish? Do you even have lungfish in Oz? As for the third drawing in the sequence well, did the aborigines ever draw roadkill?
Those stalks are spooky. What could they represent. Presumably animals of the dreamtime are based on oral or visual experiences of the real world, or am I wrong in my assumption?
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Post by lurcherman on Jan 29, 2011 9:02:35 GMT 10
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 29, 2011 10:52:59 GMT 10
some wild dogs from a distance look like they have stipes. i been to some areas where a couple of people put stipes on x breed to fool people,to bring tourists to there area. i was not impress but it takes all kinds to make a world.
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Post by rayharvey271 on Jan 29, 2011 11:02:49 GMT 10
dingo xbreeds carry taits of the dingo white sox ears and white tip on the tail that photo i sent u last night youcantry will depict dingoes from the kimberleys u can see how aboriginal artists from there tryed to show in there art what animal they were painting. i sill dont know why i cant get it to post here.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2011 4:52:37 GMT 10
have i been stop from putting pics up or theres another reason(anyone) No way, Ray. I been managing (correct word?) the site of late while Deb's tied up and I sure haven't changed any settings. I'm not the world's greatest expert, so not game to push buttons randomly .. |
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Like walking on the ground with four legs for starters! 
