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youcantry
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|  | Possible thylacine track, WA
« Thread Started on Nov 11, 2008, 9:51pm » | ![[Quote]](http://s2.images.proboards.com/buttons/quote.gif "[Quote]") |
Ok.
This evidence has expanded my initial "Hm." reply to a full analysis:
http://www.wherelightmeetsdark.com/index....=view&NW_id=437
Starting with a consideration of the prospect of a hoax, I take a look at properties of the image itself, before considering the cast, and then finally the print that produced it.
In case the owner is reading, there's a list of open questions at the end that merit consideration.
Chris.
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Thylacoleo_Gal
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #1 on Nov 12, 2008, 5:21pm » | |
Hm. 
OK, I think we can say the cast is genuine. the question then is, "What made it?" You can rule out macropods and probably the bandicoots: the architecture of their feet is all wrong for this. Given the size you'd have to be looking at a kg+ animal: that rules out the dunnarts and other small marsups. Doesn't look like either a possum or a wombat made this track. Don't think there are any wombats in WA?
So ... just to consider all possible contenders. What about either a Numbat (Myrmecobius fasciatus) or a Western Quoll (Dasyurus geoffroyi)? Both a bit small but ... you know. Consider all possibilities? 
D 
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Plesiosaurus
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #2 on Nov 12, 2008, 7:33pm » | |
Still hedging my bets on this one. When you look at http://www.users.bigpond.com/tigerbook/ the 4 toe pads and the plantar pad, thats the blob with the 2 grooves in it behind the toes, is clearly visible. It's not at all easy to distinguish in the WA specimen. Have I missed something? Do we know if there were any more prints at the site, or was this the only one?
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QFT
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #3 on Nov 13, 2008, 3:33am » | |
All this 'Hmm-ing' is somewhat counterproductive imho. There's a huge collection of sightings of 'cryptic' animals in Aus, some thylacinish, others not. You fellas know this. Sure, most are fleeting and not very credible and there's no shortage of head cases and con artists battened onto the whole biz. BS filters switched on. Beware however that one's BS filters exclude the odd genuine data item that might, just might, point you in the right direction.
Although necessarily cautious, the late Eric Guiler allowed there was 'something in it': that's good 'nuff for me.
Thylacine: The Tragedy of the Tasmanian Tiger, Eric R. Guiler. Oxford UP 1985. Chapter 9, 'Mainland Tigers', pg. 175
I do not vouch for the authenticity or otherwise of these reports, which are only a few among the mass of sightings of strange animals, some resembling thylacines. However, sufficient information has been presented to show that there may be an animal, particularly in Western Australia, South Australia and Gippsland which does not fit the general decription of animals known in the vicinity .
Tracks and anecdotes are never going to prove a thing, of course. Everyone knows that. But by listening and by collating stories, you build up a picture of what might be out there - and where.
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Wally1
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #4 on Nov 13, 2008, 5:32am » | |
I can vouch for the honesty and integrity of the people concerned with this track. There iis another pic of the mummified rear foot of a museum specimen and it matches the cast. Unfortunately this pic is not available for publication.
I have seen a cast of a similar foot print taken near the Victorian Border in the Gnarkat Env Park. It was smaller than the WA cast and the animal was seen making the track. It was tracking a kangaroo in pitch darkness in rain and later the remains of the roo was found nearby. The tracks were covered to save them being washed out, and also the tracks of a mate and juvenile were found, they had all fed from the roo.
I would like to point out that there is a host of restricted information circulated amongst friends, and if a person was to divulge this information he she or it would not have any friends left.
Regards to all Wally
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youcantry
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #5 on Nov 13, 2008, 8:45am » | |
Interesting comments all.
I have received considerable feedback regarding the article. Opinions are divided. The most serious contender for the print is a dog. I hope to revisit this one very soon and put together a more detailed comparison between dog and thylacine prints.
Will keep you all posted. Please keep the opinions coming in.
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Wally1
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #6 on Nov 13, 2008, 10:54am » | |
You cant really be serious!!.
Print the full length of the foot from claws to back of heel as inDebbies original pic.
Anyone who can corelate this with a dog has to be plain daft.
Wally
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Thylacoleo_Gal
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mingle
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #8 on Nov 13, 2008, 6:20pm » | |
I have to chip in and say it looks much more like a dog print than any of the thylacine tracks shown in the diagrams.
The size, layout and spacing of the toes in proportion to the overall print pretty much show that.
The long 'heel' could be a distortion of the print caused by a foreign object (a stick), or simply someone buggering around with a normal dog-print to make a fake.
Unless someone can make a better case?
Cheers,
Mike.
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youcantry
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #9 on Nov 14, 2008, 4:39pm » | |
or a dog sitting back on its hock.
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QFT
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #10 on Nov 16, 2008, 4:11am » | |
Yeah, could be. Trouble is, you're never going to make a case based on tracks and casts thereof. The damn thing does look like putative casts of thyla tracks elsewhere. I'll go see what I can find - but been busy of late. It'd be a pity to toss out the possibility just because it's easy to shoot the messengers.
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youcantry
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #11 on Nov 16, 2008, 8:51am » | |
Hi QFT,
no - not shooting any messengers here. Hopefully just looking at the print, comparing it with others, and coming to some conclusions.
I too now think this is a dog print. I'm in the middle of writing a follow-up article. It's amazing how much time this can take! :/
Chris.
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QFT
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #12 on Nov 16, 2008, 9:59am » | |
no - not shooting any messengers here.
That's all right then!
Yeah, given that thylas are exinct (right?), it'd have to be a dog print. The punters who "see something" do tend to be a little too hopeful. And not just with tracks and casts. The sightings reports are an eclectic mix of the good, the bad and the just plain crazy, as you would know. I just meant one shouldn't expect every witness to be the ideal courtroom witness, compleat with suit, tie and slick answers. In fact, you'd be a bit suss if they were! Most of them are doing well just to fill out the form Thylacoleo has on offer, considering the amount of ridicule they probably cop. You saw a whaaat ...??
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youcantry
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #13 on Nov 16, 2008, 10:17am » | |
No, no, no. Not saying that at all.
It's online now: http://www.wherelightmeetsdark.com/index....ootCastOverlays
I think the overlays speak for themselves. Skip down to the last image and click to enlarge if you want to skip the discussions...
Chris.
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QFT
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #14 on Nov 16, 2008, 10:38am » | |
Well that's a thorough job! OK, we're convinced: it's a dog. Hats off to yourself and your learned German collaborator. Could you please pass on Thylacoleo's compliments to Kryptozoologie? A most excellent website.
Over optimistic, eh?
"einer allzu optimistischen Tendenz herrührt, die die ganze Site durchzieht"
Would you say so? I must admit we do try to maintain an upbeat tone. Don't want to turn away potential reportees or give them the idea we're demolishers of urban myths, pure and simple. Always interested in how Thylacoleo is perceived.
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mingle
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #15 on Nov 16, 2008, 11:36am » | |
Another top job Chris!
How do you find the time? Please let me know, as I can barely spare the time to log on these days with a 2.5 year old and 2 x 10 month old twins!
Forgot to ask: any more news/updates on your trail cams?
Cheers,
Mike.
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youcantry
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #16 on Nov 16, 2008, 6:59pm » | |
"einer allzu optimistischen Tendenz herrührt, die die ganze Site durchzieht"
"over optimistic" - yes. I believe that's the gist. I'd translate it as "an all-too optimistic tendency is seen; one that can be seen throughout the whole site."
Time, mingle? You're not wrong. I spent most of September coding a new bookshop website, then October tweaking that. This footprint cast came up and, well, it's spot-on the theme of my site so I couldn't help myself. All told, probably somewhere between 4 to 6 hours just for those two articles. Then there's other stuff that I'm working on which may never end up published, but is just as important..
If I had the time I'd give the site a real tidy up right now. It needs it, and I think the German comments simply highlight that fact. I'm not arguing against them, let me say.
Wish I had the time simply to be out in the bush enjoying nature's wonders first hand, I tell you! 
Trail cams? Nothing doing. I lost my camera bag about a month ago. Somehow I did not have my camera in it, but I did have my long lens and a portable hard drive with about 4 years' worth of backed-up photos on it. Do tell me if you hear of either on offer! That, together with dropping the video camera off the roof of the car a few months back has severely dented my photographic ability :/ I still have the trail cam though. I keep getting reports of Eastern quolls and I suspect they may yet turn up in someone's camera sooner or later...
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youcantry
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #17 on Nov 16, 2008, 7:15pm » | |
PS - I once heard people discussing their favourite German words (for the aesthetic of their pronounciation). I decided mine was "schmetterling" (which is "butterfly"), but it seems kryptozoologie has been reporting my Eastern quoll news. "Eastern quoll" (which is what I'm guessing this word means) certainly gets a favourable mention for being interesting, if not aesthetic: Tüpfelbeutelmarder
Here's the approximate phonetic:
Toop-fell-boy-dell-marr-der
hehehe... I wonder what the literal translation is?
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Wally1
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #18 on Nov 16, 2008, 7:19pm » | |
Yeah Life wasn't meant to be easy, so sayeth Big Mal.
I have the trail camers set on a rabbit burrow in a disused pig pen. An un nunbered number of rabbits live under the slab with 2 outlets.today I made Mk 4 rabbit cage trap. I will standardize on that and make a batch of traps,
yesterday I took delivery of a live rabbit from some traps set a few days back. They do work. I have not lost my rabbit dressing skill, only slower.
I learned today that in a place in USA pit bulls were disappearing. A victim was left and an expert stated irrevocably that coyote was to blame.Apparently necks were crushed, and body sucked dry of blood.
Fellow buried his dog and next day it was back where it was killed.
A vet took up the cause and set a camera.
The culprit was a puma and this in a place where there have been no pumas for possibly 100 years.
Blood sucking is a male puma trait when approaching mating season. Our bigcat has the same trait, I have seen numerous sheep with their throatts bitten out and body sucked dry.
Regards to all Wally and its still a thylacine foot cast.
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youcantry
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #19 on Nov 19, 2008, 9:57pm » | |
I relocated my camera bag. Yay. That's a lens and hard drive spared
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Wally1
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #20 on Nov 20, 2008, 4:44am » | |
Reloated camera bag"
I feel happy for your good luck.
Camera revealed 17 pics of a rabbit hole.
Apparently the critters go past so fast the camera does not have time to operate.
Rabbits in that patch are dying off. Could it be calisi virus reactivating? It certainly not myxo.
If I can get a bag of vegitable trimmings I will try the camera over a bait.
Cheers Wally
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youcantry
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #21 on Nov 20, 2008, 6:40am » | |
Yep - can you try to position the camera so it looks along the trail, and not across it? I found that when testing with cats in my back yard - they're too quick to be caught if they're just running across the frame... unless the camera is a fair distance from where they're running.
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wally1
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #22 on Nov 23, 2008, 6:41pm » | |
Well the proverbial has hit the fan.
I obtained this print to print on Thylacoleo.com, nowhere else.
It is restricted copyright and not for reproduction anywhere.
If anyone has ideas of publishing this picture please do the right thing and respect other peoples rights.
Had I realise that the pic would generate so much bs in no way would have I asked for it.
It was to give people the chance to see a genuine thylacine footcast. Even that gesture has been abused.
Never again will I offer materiel for publication.
Guess all I can do now is try to mend the rift with a dear long time friend.
Wally
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youcantry
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #23 on Nov 23, 2008, 8:45pm » | |
Hi Wally,
I'm sorry that my conclusion that it was a dog might have offended yourself or your friend. No harm was meant.
Also, you know that I treat in confidence anything which is sent to me in confidence, as I have done with the discs you've generously sent previously. However, because the photo is published on the web here at thylacoleo, it does mean that anyone is free to reproduce it under the terms of "fair dealing". (That means not just me - but any website could republish it in order to tell the story as news).
Chris.
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QFT
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #24 on Nov 25, 2008, 3:35am » | |
Wally, why on Earth would anyone get themselves in a huff about this? For one thing, your correspondent asked for you to put the image up on this Forum for comment and analysis.
For a second thing, everyone knows that 99% of large canid-type quadrupeds out there are dogs. So why be surprised when the tracks people find reflect that proportion? It's the 1% that you can't ID that are interesting ...
Perhaps a 3rd point is that this business - might we say Quest? - cannot progress on the basis of hearsay about 'secret' artefacts hidden away in somebody's cupboard. Rumours of 'secret things' that supposedly 'prove' the existence of living thylacines, or indeed of any other alleged unusual phenomenon, don't prove anything at all. Science is public knowledge that anyone is allowed to examine and challenge. If they can.
If your correspondents don't agree with Chris's analysis, they are free to rebut his arguments right here on this forum and tell us why he is wrong.
Sorry, that's just how it is. Science is "show'n'tell". 
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wally1
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #25 on Nov 25, 2008, 6:30pm » | |
Ok I suppose that I went off a bit half cocked, but I asked for comments on the original pic that showed the long heel pad that coresponded with a pic of a mummified foot.
The long heel of the pic of the cast was removed leaving the toepads to be presented as that of a dog.
Anyone can do this and draw whatever conclusion it wants to.
To me the matter is closed.
Wally
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youcantry
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #26 on Nov 25, 2008, 8:17pm » | |
Hi Wally,
I see your point, and just to address it - I left the heel off because most texts I read generally discard it also. Dogs can produce a print like that, and so can thylacines. From the books I'm using, it is the shape and size of the toe and plantar pads that count.
Chris.
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guest
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #27 on Dec 3, 2008, 7:28am » | |
I have trapped and tracked Wa and south Oz for years..the rear of the pad is obviously of an animal that is not a dog.
If you disregard the rear pad..of course its going to look canid..but why would anyone do that ..???
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rayharvey271
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #28 on Jan 26, 2009, 3:25pm » | |
i have on video many long pads like the ones u r talking about i normally keep my research to myself ,also i have seen the thylacine up close on 2 occasions the pads u r on about very abit from mine also i have photo copy of tracks from nick mooney of a fresh dead kill from long ago . i took a fresh dead tiger quoll to taronga zoo 4 their dna program in 2000 which they run 4 rare species. i run a number of trail cameras thru out nsw and qld at my expence some weeks i get up to 5 thousands pictures and avi , we need more researchers with equipment and the time to look .
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mingle
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| | Re: Possible thylacine track, WA
« Reply #29 on Jan 26, 2009, 8:05pm » | |
Hi Ray(?)
Welcome to the board...!
If you need anyone to help you sift through images and vids, just let me know.
Cheers,
Mike.
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